Madness

The source of my avatar

Those two songs were brought to us by courtesy of Black-and-White-Heads-in-a-Jar Inc. Re. eclectic taste, there is beauty to be found in many places. I'm not a cow to munch a single patch of nettles when there are countless acres of beautiful grass to be grazed county-wide. What are your musical tastes @Peckris @Peckris 2 and @Peckris 3.1415927 ?

Thanks. Have been reading their journal over the past couple of weeks and edited my first post to show two relevant articles I enjoyed. Hoped that someone could suggest other sources.

I'd like to learn more about the way in which coins were manufactured in eighteenth century Great Britain prior to Boulton's Soho Mint. My area of interest extends from design to distribution and every step in between. The following would be particularly useful: Suggestions of resources from credible sources, either printed or online Images of equipment used in their production, such as dies/punches/matrices/collars etc Your personal knowledge (with attribution if possible) Thank you! Edit: My interest was piqued by these two articles: The 1787 Shilling - A Transition in Minting Technique The Striking of Proof and Pattern Coins in the Eighteenth Century

Please share stuff that makes you literally laugh out loud. Makes life more enjoyable. Extra points if it involves Monty Python.

Saturday playlist: Final song comes from a project organised by Peter Gabriel.

In my reading I've started tracking the ant trail back to the nest. What were the causes of the currency crisis that required King's 1800 proclamation? It's all too easy to say that, as a dumping ground for criminals at the faeces-feeding end of the earth, the coinage deficiency came about by the neglect of British officials and politicians. Yes, there's truth in this, but it's necessary to consider the turmoil both within and outside of the empire. This article by GP Dyer from the British Numismatic Journal of 2002 is helpful: The Currency Crisis of 1797. Here's my TLDR summary, but the article is worth reading in full. 1. In February 1797 a gold shortage led to the Bank of England suspending cash payments. Prior to this there was the assurance that whenever you handed your paper money into the bank you would be able to get the equivalent value in coinage. 2. The prime minister, William Pitt, responded with on-the-fly decisions intended to perpetuate normal commerce and trade, maintain faith in paper currency and ensure the operating of the banking system. 3. In the absence of gold, it was necessary that some form of currency take the place of guineas and half guineas. Within a week legislation had been passed allowing banks to issue notes under five pounds in value and within a few days one and two pound notes were circulating. 4. A greater supply of silver specie would support the lack of gold. In order to overcome the shortage of trusted silver coinage, a high volume of Spanish 8-reale dollars were counter-marked with a stamp of the king's bust. The un-marked coins had been circulating previously in lower volumes due to a long-standing shortage of shillings and other silver coins, but the mark gave them a fixed value of 4s9d. This response was similarly swift, implemented by early March 1797. 5. In the same way as a greater volume of silver coinage would support the gold shortage, so a greater volume of copper coins would support the silver. Late March saw the recommendation minting of pence and twopence pieces with a face value equal to the sum of the copper-value and cost of production. The implementation of this was planned more carefully with Boulton's Soho mint contracted to the task later that year. 6. The crisis had been on the horizon for a considerable time and forced the government to confront issues that had long been swept under the carpet. This provides us with the context for the inclusion of two of the Proclamation Coins: The "copper coin of 1 oz" ("cartwheel" penny) and the spanish dollar. It also reminds us that, while the colony of New South Wales may have been of little importance, Britain was facing her own problems and prioritising economic health at home.

A Brief Book Review Andrew Crellin. The Coinage of Colonial Australia: Governor King's Proclamation of 1800. Sydney: Monetarium, 2004 There's no question that this book is immediately pleasing to the eye and to the hand: Generously illustrated with images representing the times, places, people and coins discussed within its hard-cover binding. The introduction of ten pages serves to provide some context, including a socio-economic overview of the penal colony. A chapter is then dedicated to each of the eleven coins, which are described, their usage discussed and some tips provided for the novice collector. This is not a work of great depth or scholarship, nor was it intended to be as the primary audience is obviously not the serious numismatist. Rather, it is a welcome diversion that can be comfortably read in a couple of evenings. What qualifies me to make these comments? Well, frankly nothing. This is the first book I've read with a numismatic focus. That said, over the course of the past couple of weeks I've read a number of articles from the British Numismatic Journal on related topics which serve as a point of reference. These have been far more interesting and useful. Perhaps I'll summarise their contents in upcoming posts. The Coinage of Colonial Australia can be purchased here for $50 AUD. I bought my new copy recently from an eBay seller for $10, but they have no more copies left. This is unsurprising given that only 750 were printed.

This is probably the best (non-proof) 1787 shilling for sale/auction that I've seen so far. Auctioned 6-11 September. They list it as MS64, but here are at least five high points on the obverse that appear shinier than the others. Is this due to wear, or reflections of a light source during photography? Do you agree with grading? What do you think would be a reasonable price? McDonald's "Australian Coins and Banknotes" (2014 ed.) gives and estimate of $450 for this coin in uncirculated condition, which equates to about 250 GBP. With the guinea partial-refund I should be able to afford that amount by the date of auction. Edit: It's possibly worth a bit more because of the "no dots on obverse" variation. Source

There are good things about autism, but not a day goes past where I wish I didn't have it. Attention to detail and the ability to focus do not compensate for the melt downs and hypersensitivity to noise.

Do I post too much?

*Madness raises his hand and then quietly whispers that he suspected something similar* I wasn't diagnosed until I was 41.

Bother. I could have put my $200 refund from the guinea towards it.

Did you invoke me, @DrLarry? Some talk of "madness"?

I want this one @jelida. Think you could get it for me for 200 GBP? 😉 Source: Upcoming DNW Auction Seriously I'm interested in this lot as it has a few coins I'm after and gives me exposure to coins from different eras and different denominations. What do you think? Edit: Actually the cartwheel penny is in crap condition. Any comments on the others?

Reading about numismatics is fun. Macquarie University in Sydney has a Centre for Ancient Numismatics, but only for those who already have an appropriate undrgrad degree. I don't think a music degree counts, but the contemplation of a Bachelor of Ancient History is intriguing. Studied two semesters of beginner's Ancient Greek (language) at Melbourne Uni about 25 years ago and then a couple of years of Koine Greek. I've forgotten most of it, but this should help me gain entry. Hmm.... food for thought. They offer the course externally as well as on campus. Would keep the old grey matter ticking over rather than sitting at home staring at the ceiling.

Yes, I noticed that too. However, all three "A"s are slightly different, which lead me to consider the possibility further. The letters were hand-stamped into the punches during the production of this coin, weren't they? Was there a variety of letter "fonts" that these workers had to choose from? Is the variation in the "A"s a result of this, or further evidence of die wear? I looked at more 1787 shillings this afternoon and noticed two others with "clogging" near the base of this "V", but not as bad as this example. I guess they could all have come from the same die with varying degrees of deterioration. There were 122 recorded obverse dies and 125 reverse dies, so the odds of coming across three examples of the same die, in a state of deterioration, in a 90 minute period isn't very high. Alternatively, was it common to have chips of metal coming out of dies at points like this? What caused the chips?

Is it possible that the "V" in "GEORGIVS" is an inverted "A"? Is this common?

Thanks very much for the suggestion, Jerry. Do you agree with the gEF? It seems to have less definition in details on the reverse than some other 1787 Shillings that I've seen graded as gEF. Is this explained by a worn die? I'd like to buy one with as much "clarity" (by which I mean sharp edges and minimal "blobbiness") as I can afford. If there is correct terminology for the laughable expressions I use, please educate me!

I'm two weeks and two days into this hobby. Why did I choose to begin with Proclamation coins? 1. I bought a guinea without any background research simply because of a certain uninformed mystique behind it 2. I discovered that it was part of Governor King's 1800 proclamation 3. Being a fan of Patrick O'Brian novels and having read a little about colonial history, the period intrigued me 4. As an introduction to collecting, it provides me with the opportunity to consider coins of various nations, denominations, materials and production methods Realistically, I'll only be collecting coins with an exchange rate equal to and less than that given by King to the Guinea. The price of acquiring a johanna, half-johanna and gold mohur would just take too long to save. As previously mentioned, I'll also be restricting my collection to those actually on King's list. What's next? Perhaps a single groat of each monarch from Victoria back. Time will tell. There's one thing I can tell you, though: I'll be researching things thoroughly first! My guinea fiasco serves as a cautionary tale.

Thanks kindly, Jerry. Will send you a PM shortly.

@Paulus A thing of beauty is a joy forever. Thanks for posting. Aspirational coin condition for me.

They're great, aren't they. My love of renaissance choral music began with Tallis Scholars. Since then I've come to appreciate other groups, especially The Cardinall's Musick.

I would be very happy to pay up to 200 GBP for a gEF 1787 shilling. Won't be ready to buy for a couple of months though. It would be cool if a trusted member could keep an eye open for me at fairs and give my contact details to a seller of a suitable coin. I would pay that member a reasonable finder's fee as they would be doing me a great favour: My location restricts my search to the Internet. Please let me know.