Madness

As per thread title, I'm interested to find out a little more about everyone here including your day jobs. If you're retired, what was your primary occupation when you still had one? I'm not working at the moment, but have a Bachelor of Music degree. Worked as a high school music teacher for about four years and a full-time private instrumental music teacher for about two. Also toiled in a very unglamorous administrative role in the insurance industry for seven years (loss adjusting firm). At the moment I do house chores and run around after my primary-school aged children while my wife works as a records officer at the local council.

Feeling confident today. Have contacted the seller of the coin prior to opening a case against him in eBay. Thanks for your comments and encouragement @PWA 1967 and @DrLarry.

My grading guestimate: EF What do you think would be a reasonable amount to pay for this example?

My playlist for a Sunday Morning. Entree, main course and desert:

The helpful table linked by @Paddy raises an important question: What constitutes a proclamation coin? As I see it, the term has been used in at least four ways: 1. To refer to not only the coins in Governor King's 1800 proclamation, but also those that derive their face value from them: A halfpenny, half-guinea etc. Without the shadow of a doubt these would have been in circulation at the time. For better or worse, though, King includes a half-Johanna, which itself is a derived value. This suggests that sixpences etc were not "officially" accepted tender, but may have lead to some confusion on the matter in colonial practice. 2. To refer to early Australian colonial currency constitutes. This is unquestionably a misnomer. That would be like saying that every animal on the farm is a cow. There is a substantial body of anecdotal evidence that other specie, particularly bullion, were widely circulated and accepted. This doesn't mean that they were official currency, or even legal currency. 3. To refer to coins that constituted the official currency of the antipodean colonies only. There were were twelve similar decrees between 1788 and 1825. I see no reason why this is not a valid descriptor. 4. To refer to the 1800 Proclamation by King alone. This is a very narrow meaning and possibly needs further clarification when used. My nascent collection (at this stage consisting of the guinea alone) is limited by the fourth definition at this stage, for reasons that I shall elaborate upon in a future post. For further reading, take a look at this article *here*. On this page they're plugging a book that I recently purchased, "The Coinage of Colonial Australia" by Andrew Crellin. I'll post a book review some time in the next couple of weeks.

I'm sick of a recent thread being polluted by heated conversation that is neither enlightening nor remotely related to the thread. This is the dog bit, where you can go to town. Put on your boxing gloves and practise your pugilistic performance here.

RANT Not you too, @Peckris. This is not the place for political animosity. Why are you all so hell bent on crapping on my thread? Take it outside, gentlemen. If you insist on persisting, here's the place to do it:

I wish the world were like Chigwick. I'd go outside more often.

@DrLarry @jelida Please take your discussion to PM rather than filling my thread with dross.

For some reason your post brought to mind this song, by a group optimistically described in the late 70's as "prog's last gasp": Here's something toe-tapping that I enjoy:

Australia was invented as a construct to ensure that everyone else felt superior to someone.

We of convict stock have many Neanderthal genetic markers. To dispel another myth, not all of us are called Bruce. Many are known affectionately as "Dickhead" or "Wanker".

The first piece is actually Renaissance. Love the stuff. When I was a teenager our music teacher said "Who wants to learn an instrument? Any instrument you want" I told him I desperately wanted to play the lute. He thought I was trying to wind him up. Now I play renaissance instruments vicariously through multiple devices. Prog is a more recent love dating back only a couple of years. So much depth of talent to explore. Can you recommend any? How do you know when Paul McCartney isn't really Paul McCartney? Does that have something to do with a conspiracy involving a car accident and a body double?

For those after something extremely relaxing, ethereal: For those after something funky and weird: For those who need more mellotron in their lives, and, honestly, who doesn't?

Aha! With much fanfare I announce that I've found a way to insert a table, thus circumventing my own stupidity. Here is the value of each of the eleven coins in the colony of New South Wales as proclaimed in 1800: I decided to interview a local trader at the cost of two ales to determine the impact that this had upon his business: Madness: Given the variation in exchange rate in the current economic clime, does governor King's standardisation of currency affect your trade and, if so, how has this impacted your bottom line? Local Trader: Bugger off. Madness: Thank you for your insight. Subsequent to this interview, and having received a report from my junior research assistant, I was in receipt of certain information. Apparently there was more coin going out of the colony that going in. Impact: There wasn't enough to go round and, therefore, the economy depended on bartering and "IOU"'s. By making coins worth more than their face value it was hoped that the coins would stay put and that some semblance of stability could be established. Intended result: Circulation was like an anatomically-correct belly button, more in-y than out-y. Did the system work? Did King get it wrong? Did Trump's great-great-great-great-great uncle launch a preemptive trade war against the convict settlement? Stay tuned as we answer these questions and more.

Let me tell you a tale, a tale so full of mystery and wonder that it will make your teeth curl, your hair turn an interesting shade of purple and your dog collect the morning newspaper whilst wearing an evening jacket. Eleven coins; Four world powers; A desperate, fledgling colony Let us begin with the words of Governor Philip King, delivered conversationally to an audience of several in Sydney, November 19th 1800: "19th Nov. The Currency WHEREAS Representations of the Want of small money, experienced here, has Induced His Majesty to take into His Gracious Consideration the Immediate relief from this great Inconvenience to all Classes of His Subjects in this Colony, a Quantity of Copper Coin has been received in His Majesty's Armed Vessel 'Porpoise', and will be circulated, by being paid for Grain and Animal Food supplied His Majesty's Stores. "A Twopence Coin These are therefore to give notice, that a Copper Coin, weighing One English ounce, and stamped with the profile of His Majesty on the one side, and of Britannia on the other, will be Issued as Above, at the rate of Two pence for each Copper; and that the same shall be paid and pass Current in the Colony, and is to Circulate at the Aforesaid Rate of Two pence. "The Legal Tender And that no one may plead Ignorance of the Rate or Legality of this or any other of the Coins circulating in this Colony, of which it does not appear that any regular Proclamation has ever collectively been issued, I have judged it most expedient herewith to publish the following Table of all the specie legally circulating in this Colony, with the Rates Affixed to each, at which they shall be considered, and be a legal tender in all payments or transactions in this Colony. . "Table of specie A Guinea, a Johanna, a Half-Johanna, a Ducat, a Gold Mohur, a Pagoda, a Spanish dollar, a Rupee, a Dutch guilder, an English Shilling, a Copper coin of One Ounce [editor's note: I have no idea how to insert tables or use the Pound symbol on my colonial keyboard, so this list must suffice for the time being] When a sufficient quantity of Copper Coin is received in the Colony, of which notice will be given, no private Notes or Cards will be allowed to Circulate. "Copper coin for small amounts only This Supply of Copper having been sent to relieve the Inconvenience of persons requiring to make small payments, no persons are to Collect the same for the purpose of making large payments, nor shall it be deemed a legal tender to offer the same in payment for any sum exceeding five pounds. "Coin to Be Kept in Colony And it is hereby declared that the Exportation or Importation, except from His Majesty's Treasury, of any sum in Copper exceeding five pounds shall be punished by a Fine of treble the value, and forfeiture of the sum exported or imported...." @DrLarry has recently been sentenced to transportation to the aforesaid penal colony for the period of no less than seven years for encouraging the indictable offence that is this thread. In forthcoming episodic posts we shall hear how this state of affairs came to be, how the author came to track its trail and, due to repeated insistence of many, the colourful language that Mrs King used to describe her convict servant on Thursday last.

Beautiful. Thank you for posting.

I'll channel my inner Basil and imagine that I'm dealing with the seller of the "Fawlty" coin in this manner:

Thanks @DrLarry and @PWA 1967

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice. Based and this and further scrutiny, I can imagine an aspiring middle-class lady wearing the coin as a pendant and rubbing GIII's face with a cloth every now and then. The mount, assuming there was one, has been very cleanly removed and the coin bears only a minor scar from the experience. I think I'll keep it. Firstly, because I hate confrontation. Secondly, because I think the coin tells a nice story. My Proclamation collection will be small and is all about stories, primarily the tale of the economy, trade, currency and society in early colonial Australia. Thirdly, it's a constant reminder that I need to be careful in my selection of coins. I intend to never make the same mistake again.

Source: @Rob second example: Given that I was too harsh at my last attempt: Grading guestimate: VF - Significant wear, but localised to the higher points What are the parallel lines on the obverse? They seem too even and straight to be cleaning. Is this what adjustment looks like? Thanks again.

@1949threepence Are there any principles underlying this dark art? Principles and guidelines? I'm here to learn.

It's the photo @Michael-Roo. Doesn't actually look this colour in real life. I'll mark today as a learning experience, the sign of a true neophyte. Will persevere and research all future purchases much more carefully. Oh, I've learnt to trust empirical evidence rather than a seller's opinion. *goes away and cries into pillow*

Crap. Cost me about $750 AUD (about 420 GBP), which represents six months of saving for me. Overpriced for what it is? Would you try to return it?

My 1794 spade guinea arrived today. Crap photos. Not surprising as I'm a crap photographer using a mediocre phone! There's a ton of wear on the obverse and a little less on the reverse. This book that I bought last week states the following: "The lack of high relief on the guinea means that, to the naked eye, there is not much detail remaining in coins graded Very Fine or Extremely Fine, and the amount of lustre is an important indication of the degree to which a coin has been in circulation." Is this statement true? The most obvious wear on this example is certainly to the laurel wreath (the high point of the obverse) and George's hair. If so, the seller is possibly correct in grading it gVF. I would have called it F without reading this. Do you think the coin has been dipped? Not sure what gold coins should look like in regards to toning/lustre. Image makes the coin look white-ish. It's actually more gold-ish IRL. Thanks!