oldcopper

Slightly off-topic, good luck with the return, but this is one of the hardest of all copper pennies to get in top grade, far rarer thus than the 1837, 1849, 1860. Even the 27 and both 43 varieties are known in very lustrous condition. I know of no lustrous or unc. examples of the .W.W (though there's a nice one in lustrous unc in the BM). The Alderney example seemed to have edge problems and Colin Adams' was middle grade.

I notice from Edward Judson's collection (DNW March 2002), an interesting comment for Lot 519, containing 2 1858 pennies, one the postulated 8/3 overdate: "The very fine example is sold with Judson's original ticket stating the overdate as 1858 over 2; the wording on the ticket infers that it was acquired with a certification letter to this effect from the Royal Mint [now missing]" So it sounds like the RM also analysed this variety and came to the same conclusion as Gouby did some time later.

And not having an internet bidding service makes people even more reliant on their integrity.

Just quickly, sorry, this is off the thread of coin cabinets. Everything else can go to rack and ruin just so long as house prices keep going up...seems to be the last twenty years plus of government strategy. I think there are two factors - first all these people who used to commute to London want a place in the country now, so they can Zoom everything and maybe pop into the office only now and again. And secondly, where has all that excess money the government has been printing and borrowing gone? - into asset prices (including coins) and the stock market so far, not yet that much into consumables, though oil's going up. So government inflation CRP and asset inflation would appear to be two different things. And if inflation really rears its ugly head with all this excess money now slushing around, how much are the government going to keep interest rates pegged down to protect the housing market, in the process destroying the value of people's savings?

Yes, I saw it the other day - though of course being dealers they are less fussed about long-term degradation of coins via surface contamination (the coins have long ago been sold by the time that would have an effect), but granted, edge knocks are an immediate effect for anyone! Provided the trays are wide enough that they can fully get their fingers around the edges of the coin before picking it up, that's pretty important. otherwise it's almost unavoidable for fingers to intrude over the rim. I did raise my eyebrows when they mentioned that wisps of cotton fabric from cotton gloves could cause hairlines. I can't ever see how that could happen! Also it depends on the metal - lustrous copper or bronze need a lot more care in handling than say, toned silver or gold.

Perhaps it was what they like to call a "pocket piece". So maybe not circulated.

There have been a couple of pretty ropey ones put through SNC over the decades. I can definitely remember one in fine or worse. Perhaps it should have marketed as - "almost unknown in this state of preservation". I'll look it up. I can't imagine they weren't initially produced for circulation (though what we see today must have mainly been put aside as Rob says) as they are a rather substandard issue - askew die axis, bad die clashing seen on all specimens, degraded lettering (more apparent on some than others), the partially blocked date and flatness of Britannia's breast on many. Also, the only instance in the copper or bronze series where two numbers in the date are overstruck rather than the more prevalent one (OK, for the pedants - excepting the 43 or 41(?)/39 proof halfpennies). So all very makeshift. Due to the massive bronze production of the early 1860's, most copper would have been exchanged or put aside by 1864 I would guess.

It's Edward VII's first pattern penny. His only young head! There was a 1901 similarly tooled also smoking which was ex Peck (Feb 1972 SNC).

I heard a good joke on Classic FM a few years back. Yes I know, an unlikely source: Two friends, an Englishman and a Frenchman both own cats. The Englishman's is call "One Two Three" and the Frenchman's "Un Deux Trois". One day, they decide to race their cats against each other over the English Channel - One Two Three starting from Dover, Un Deux Trois from Calais. Whoever's cat gets across the channel first wins. Come the big day, both cats set off, a few hours later One Two Three reached France, but even by the next day there's no sign of Un Deux Trois. The Englishman phones up his friend to find out what happened. Well, Un Deux Trois cat sank.....

I saw this the other day - well done and appreciate them doing it, but as usual the key drawback of slabs (to me) is not mentioned - it's not so much whether you can handle the coin in question, but that you can't enjoy the coin in directly reflected light. So it's much harder to appreciate the brilliance or beautiful multi-coloured toning, say, of an old proof, as you're mostly seeing the light reflection off the plastic which drowns much of that out.

I noticed DNW or the seller didn't bother much with putting the coins the right way up or even in their right pockets. But they did show the empty boxes which must be a first. Still, it obviously worked as each set went for about £200 each - and they're both missing the crown's ribbon shock horror. Strangely, the owner must have had a problem with these. https://www.dnw.co.uk/auctions/catalogue/lot.php?auction_id=598&lot_uid=389951

Never heard of that to be honest - like their search a coin archive from the sound of it, you key in any general info about a type of coin and it comes up with "No lots found". Complete waste of time.

SNC's final issue staggered out at the start of 2014, and it had been getting more infrequent in the couple of years before that. It used to be 6 a year (and every month long ago). The bloke in charge unfortunately had a serious car accident at the time which was the final blow. It's not on Spink's website.

I notice some of these W.W's, including mine (which is better condition than this, say Fine), have a weakly struck FID: It's very unusual for a Royal Mint 19th century copper coin to have such noticeable weakness in the legend like that.

I take it this die got re-used in 1844. Presumably you've got one of those.

I have to say it's a lovely coin, it cost me quite a bit more than £850.

Here's a price rise in that sale: Anne pattern halfpenny P726: £1,800. I sold it in their March 2020 sale for £850. Aaagh..... Someone made a few hundred quid on it.

Or if you prefer farthings,

Perhaps there's something like a Dulux chart available for slabbers?

Still on the penny thread, anyone interested in the load of completely naturally toned (sarcasm) 1937 proof bronze coming up for auction in Heritage? Someone's chancing their arm....do you want one in bright blue or luridly efflorescent blue, sir?

There's a 1934 lustrous example coming up in the LCA auction. Hard to tell from a photo I suppose but the colour looks reasonably honest:

The 1799 and 1806 copper are known for occasional flat areas in the legends, Peck mentions it. He says the currency proofs don't suffer from it so it must be a facet of production "en masse".

Five? - was there a tokens one as well?

Sorry - it got sent before I'd written anything. I sold a Bramah 25c through Spink last year - nice one, quite lustrous - £440 I think. You don't see many of them around, but not a very exciting coin for me as no-one's worked out the under-figure yet as far as I know.