TomGoodheart

Richard the brutal terroriser of French towns, never in his own kingdom, "lionised" by later generations, and a right bastard by all accounts Yeah, that too! But from a numismatic perspective ...

I thought this was interesting. Written in 1996. Coin Market Slang.

Interesting little article in Coin News I thought. Though I have to say I disagree with one point in it: "Any trip to an American fair will show you one very important difference between the US and the UK markets— “slabbingâ€. This practice, of encapsulating a coin in a permanent plastic holder, along with the associated grading system that is quite different from our standard “F, VF, EF†allows purchasers of coins to buy them knowing that their grade, and thus their value has been professionally appraised and, because of the slabbing process the coin will remain that way forever. This has, in turn allowed people to buy coins for investment, safe in the knowledge that they have bought coins that will not be affected by time, this has encouraged big money to come into the hobby and as a result coin prices have continued an upward trend—culminating in records such as this." NO! (is my response!) Firstly, we are getting suggestions that coins do not stay forever the way they are when slabbed (check for mentions of gassing coins in slabs to 'enhance' the colours on US coin sites). But most importantly it seems to me that ANY investment is subject to the whims of sentiment and the market ... and hence time.. There is NO guarantee (unless you get a legal contract enabling you to get back what you paid) that when you come to sell something there will be someone prepared to take it off your hands, let alone buy it to yield a profit. Trading in the South Seas, tulip bulbs, shares in the 1920s, dot-com companies and now stamps. Big money comes in .... and then leaves again as everyone gets the bug for the latest Beanie Babies instead. So have your coins slabbed and graded by all means. But please don't think that the result is anything other than a nice coin in a plastic case. Because a slab is not some financial equivalent of an invisibility cloak. If the speculative market for coins evaporates (as I believe it did in the 1970s) then yes, better coins will be better protected ... but I doubt much will be immune. [/rant]

OOh! Richard the Lionheart? Nice!

HENRI (London)? Class V (with sceptre)?? Just guessing really!

I think your V is part of an M and the G/C an E, making it []MER ? AIMER ON LUND? Henry II? That double barred N should be a clue, but it's really not my area, I'm afraid.

Yes, very nice. Even if the overmark does look a bit like (that excessively rare mark only issued for one day, on 1 April 1573) a squished ant.

Quite. And being hammered, each of my coins is unique as I can't just buy a S.whatever in gVF as a replacement. Many would take considerable time and effort to even find another of the same design and where they have been published or are from a particular collection, again, once they are gone .. that's it. I guess if forced to choose I'd pick the most expensive since if I sold it I could buy a handful more coins! But as to favourites... that changes depending on my mood I'm afraid. As to which I'd happily sell today for the price I paid for it .. now, that's a much easier choice!!!

I think 17% is quite reasonable! Most I buy from seem to be in the 20%s and you have to add postage costs (and potential import fees from overseas). I work on the principle that as a collector I can pay more than most dealers, because they need to be able to add their profit margin and still end up with a price people will pay. So I work out what I think a coin is 'worth' to me and work backwards from there. Of course, some days people are willing to spend stupid money and there's no way to allow for that, unless you join them. Fortunately my budget doesn't allow me much scope to go crazy!

Hi and welcome jodape! I would say the important thing is to find a coin series you like. That includes size, designs, metal. ALL coin series will have their 'micro' varieties that are subtly different and need experience to spot and may be challenging to find, but most within the last 100 years will provide a range of designs and grades and prices to look through. I myself started with shillings. I remember using them as a child so they had a sentimental value, plus they aren't too pricy for the later ones, the series goes back several hundred years (strictly to Edward VI/ Henry VIII) and I liked the size. And there were Commonwealth (New Zealand, South Africa etc) issues too, to add to the diversity. Costly? Well you can pick up coins for a couple of quid or hundreds+, so it's sort of relative to your budget. But even 'old' coins, such as shillings of Charles I from the 17th century can be found for £15 upwards. Though for that price they won't be in terribly good condition, but should be recognisable for design and rough date of issue. Just remember, you don't have to stick with whatever you start with (we all have a few coins we've found that don't fit into the collection!), changing your mind is fine, you can always ask for advice here about grades etc and as others have said, start with cheaper coins until you know a bit about what makes a particular coin desirable and expensive. (That's not the same thing as desirable and expensive on ebay!!)

Was it particularly a Unite or Laurel? How about this? Click on the photo for details. £2400

Depends on the coin Nek. My personal preference is toned. Here for example is one of mine, which 'in the hand' is a nice almost-black-with-hints-of-golden brown. Obviously I've adjusted the photo so it's as close to real life on my laptop, so might appear different to you. But I'd hope you'd agree, it's not unpleasing? However I have had coins where the toning was patchy, speckly or oddly uneven and so the coin wasn't as attractive. But generally I like my coins to look as if they have been around a few years (which they have) rather than freshly minted. Of course it's all a matter of personal preference I guess. And perhaps the age of the coin. Modern stuff ( post 1816) I don't find so bad if it's bright, though I still prefer a bit of colour. And oddly, ancients, like Roman and Greek, it's common to find they have been dipped to clean off the centuries of crud. Just be careful to only experiment on cheap coins, don't use anything abrasive that leaves scratches and leave copper alone I reckon.

Seeing as someone has drilled holes in them to attached them to the mount, I'm hoping so!

Oh well, if we're talking bullets, mine's bigger than yours! 40mm Bofors gun shell with what I think are two from a four-inch (102 mm) anti-aircraft gun.

I guess the risk is that, without the company to pursue such issues, it would be easy for someone to start making their slabs with any old tat in and it could be a while before the market realises. And of course if that happened, confidence in (and saleability of) genuine CGS graded coins would suffer. As to Australia, it appears both CGA (Coin Grading Australia) and ACGS (Australian Coin Grading Service) failed to get off the ground. Possibly an indication that the coin market in America is just different (despite CGS' best efforts) from everywhere else? And more reasons why it's essential to buy the coin, not the slab. As for myself, despite Bill's generous and attentive explanations, I remain to be convinced of the usefulness to me of someone else giving a grade to my coins. Setting aside the fairly major flaws that only one grade is given for an item that can be quite different on the obverse and reverse and that grading takes (or should take if it really is just an assesment of wear) no account of whether a coin is a better or worse example than normally encountered, a third party just can't tell me whether I will like a coin when I see it or not because that's subjective and down to me alone.

Ah, yes. There's a point. If ever Bill ran out of coins for CGS to grade and they consequently went broke, where would their guarantees stand then? Because as far as I can tell from this thread, Bill is (apart perhaps from London Coins) their main (or certainly a major) customer after all ....

It's odd really. When I was in Lille last year there were several shops devoted to stamps and coins. More than you'd find in a similar sized town here in England. And if you think of the Prinz or Lighthouse ranges, they do as many philatelic as numismatic accessories. I wonder if it's just the UK that has gone off the boil for stamps? I do think things like First day Covers have done the hobby no good. I have albums of them from my Dad and they are worth next to nothing. Certainly not the £00s he spent on the ruddy things! OK, he did collect other stamps and maybe they are worth a bit more. But if he'd collected good condition coins from the same period, I suspect they would be worth quite a bit more now. Apart from the 50ps with hands on he had a liking for anyway!

Ouch! I presume that's a trace of lead from the bullet? And also presume it didn't just bounce off and go through a different important part, for someone to keep it as a souvenir!? Nice bit of history!

The face, leg detail and blanket binding all looks less than perfect to me. Not that I know anything about milled coin grading , but VF ish? Whatever average number that might be. High 50s? Now here's a nice one:

I find it annoying you have to register with CGS to see verification information (or any other info at all for that matter). PCGS you just put in the number and it brings up the record.

COIN YOU GET IS LIKE COIN IN PICTURE THAT ONE SOLD I guess the question is ... how much like the picture, eh?

Well, when I searched for "what is pvc green on coins?" several entries claimed that eventually pvc residue will damage a coin. Not knowing much about the chemistry of the whole process of 'pvc sweating' I don't know if that's true, but even so, it doesn't seem like a particularly good thing to find on a coin! And given the other thread about CGS and their standards, I too share Stuart's .. surprise. Was it a yellow label?

You do sometimes get green on hammered silver. I presume it's because the silver is mixed with copper to the correct fineness and sometimes you get a bit that's not so well mixed in and that's where the copper salts develop...

You can say that again Gary!

Indeed. I personally have nothing against slabs, I can see the value of protecting a coin and reassurance that it is what the label says it is, ... just they aren't for me. But then I collect hammered coins. They aren't going to suffer if I pick them up to look at them like copper or proofs and they won't deteriorate like tin. OK, it's not ideal to drop them and you can't give a 'raw' coin to someone to admire without a little trepidation. But nobody has (yet) bitten one to test if it's silver! Plus I like to weigh my coins, re-examine them for little details I later notice on others, creep downstairs at night and admire them all sleeping on their little felt beds in the cabinet while mumering 'My precioussssss' .. Oops. Did I say that out loud? LOL I don't honestly pay much attention to the grade someone gives a coin and so, while I get the point about the accuracy of grading (one I'm currently following was 'nearly very fine' when it sold through one auction house three years ago, now it's 'good very fine' with a different auctioneer), I always look at the coin, compare it to those I have seen in the past and make my own decision as to whether it's good enough, how much I'm prepared to pay and how much I want it. Obviously, I'm of the opinion that this is the ideal way to do things. If people come to rely on TPGCs and don't learn to assess coins themselves I think something is lost from the hobby. You could say it becomes more of an investment than a journey of discovery if you like. Which is why I'm concerned with the idea that simply slabbing a coin makes it worth more. That suggests to me that, as I suspect happens a lot in the US, people are starting to buy the slabs, not the coins. The fact that someone is prepared to pay a ridiculous price for an undated 20p, while not surprising (more has passed hands on ebay for a supposedly lesser example) is not, I feel, something to celebrate. Yes, I accept it's not the TPG's fault if people are prepared to offer unseen on slabbed coins (jokily or not). But I worry that in a few years we will get disappointed collectors who insist 'but it's CGS encapsulated' as if that somehow makes their 1967 penny different. It will be interesting to see how it all goes. And whether we will still be discussing the merits or otherwise of slabs in 10 years time! In the meantime Bill ... how about showing us some photos of your coins, eh?! After all, much as we all like 'chatting' we're only really here for our daily fix of porn coin pics!!