TomGoodheart

True. When Wifey drives she can listen to the Kooks and all that shizz and then when I get in I just switch cards and it's back to Lamb of God and the Prodigy! Oddly, I feel a bit like a Luddite. As technology had advanced I've simplified. Back in the day when I took photographs I had a decent SLR camera. Then we were burgled and we just got a point and shoot instead. I used to lavish time and money on my stereo in the days of records. And albums were as much for the music as the artwork of the covers. Now .. I just listen to music via the internet. I think I have one downloaded track and that's John Cage's 4′33″! Though CDs can be handy sometimes. Can't get an MP3 signed by the members of a band, can you?

LOL. You would have liked my Dad's old Quad stereo. Valve amp, Rotel deck and electrostatic speakers the size of radiators. Sadly I had no space for them so sold them on to a specialist... Now? I listen to my metal off an SD card that plugs into the car sound system ...

Just for fun (?) I thought Id revisit this thread. Seems to me that the Scots are voting with an awful lot of unknowns. Currency, EU membership, border arrangements and status/future of what are currently UK Government departments and armed forces in what will nominally be an independent country for a start. Now I can't see Westminster allowing Scotland to flounder as it's not in the interests of everyone else. We would all benefit from an economically healthy, politically stable neighbour more than another sick man of Europe. However there may well be a limit to how accommodating they are if it goes to a Yes. While everyone has views as to what will happen, it really doesn't seem clear to me. So I can only assume voting will be down to sentiment. Not really a good basis to make a decision that will affect us and our children for generations ..

Well, that is over ten years worth. Luckily I realised early on that it would be helpful to have comparisons when looking to buy. The fact that it also gives me a historic record of prices and availability didn't really occur to me until rather later on!

I certainly maintain records of coins by reference number, price, where and when sold. I have 1510 so far. Just Charles I Tower mint shillings ... and that doesn't include all of those in auction catalogues and dealers' sale lists. It's a full time job. But unfortunately an unpaid one. .

It already has. I bought this raw from Stacks Bowers 18 months ago: Negro's head having been used as a mark for only about 10 months the coins are scarce in any condition, so £400+ would have not been unreasonable IMHO. I got it for $330. I'm sure others have similar stories. Conversely, a year ago I bid over £500 on a coin here in the UK, expecting to get it for a bit under my bid. A regular Charles I shilling but in rather better than average condition. It went for £1000 not including commission. It's not just in the US that conditional rarity has become most desirable alas. .

I can't fault any of that coinkat. To me the UK market appears to be moving away from the varieties and scarcities in any condition towards everyone wanting better condition as well. This makes grade more important. Trouble is, most hammered and early milled coins weren't consistent in how they left the mint making it a challenge to determine what's wear and what's down to the quality of the strike. I'd argue that makes a large proportion of 'classic' coins that attracted collectors of the past unsuited to third part grading. I worry that this will make such series less 'collectable' in the future. There also seems to be an expectation about prices (at least on eBay) for slabbed examples of such coins which may be%2

Verdegris on a silver coin (top of the reverse): Though as far as I know you're right that verdegris shouldn't form on precious metal coins. I'm guessing that since it's a copper salt, it's not actually on the silver, but an area of over-concentrated copper in the alloy.

Thanks. To be honest, I'm finding it difficult to second guess prices in the current market. Little material about and much of it mediocre with the occasional daft price being paid for better pieces! But I'd hope on a good day between £150-£200 ... if the lop-sided flan doesn't put people off. I'm assuming that's post-slabbing? Bit worrying ... And yes, since silver coins are not 100% silver the small amounts of copper in the mix can in theory result in verdegris. Though I don't believe it can spread beyond the copper to the rest of the coin AFAIK. .

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I was wondering about this for example: Trouble is, I could see it getting anywhere from a 40 up. (Or, given there are a few scratches, a 'details' grade ..!) Maybe when I win the lottery. Or if ever I decide to sell it. Though in that case, if I was aiming for 'big bucks' I'd be as likely to use NGC and sell through Stacks or Heritage in the US. As for Bill, I don't remember him posting recently. You could always PM him?

Welcome Russ. Remember we like photos of coins too! Feel free to post a few from your collection if you can. Are your shillings all milled or any hammered? Why do I ask? Er .. just curious!

I've moved this topic to the TGP Discussions section for neatness PWA. And while I also fall into the 'have not slabbed a CGS coin' camp, I feel compelled to mention that while I would be very interested to know what CGS would say about a couple of my coins, since they are hammered the £29.99 (plus £10 post) rather puts me off trying it out. OK, so I'm cheap. But while I can still find pleasing coins for under £80, how worthwhile would it be to spend £40 to get a 'details' grade? Detector finds with scratches or dints, museum cleaned, even odd spots of verdegris ... I just can't see even some of the rarest of my coins meeting their standards, which are after all based on expectations for later milled. I'm not saying CGS should compromise their standards .. I'd be happy to have my coins assessed on the basis of wear alone. But I suspect in most cases I'd just be throwing my money away. If submission was the standard £13.75, or there were 'introductory' offers would I try it out? Maybe. Just an observation.

Perhaps we should have the equivalent to a swear box? Every time someone says "Penny" "Halfpenny" or "Farthing" they have to put in 1p. Same with misspellings and bad grammar. The proceeds to go to those who collect shillings and talk proper...

Chris has an occasional clear out Geordie. Particularly if there's a spate of spam. Fortunately there hasn't been for a while. But he's the only one that can actually remove members. PM him maybe?

Better photo of #1 (Spink 2789 Sharp D1/1):

Oh, well, you might find this amusing then!

To be honest, now seeing it small like that, I see minimal wear at all. And it looks to be better than average on eye appeal. But I'm going to defer to people like Clive, Rob and Stuart to state an actual grade I'm afraid!

Mwahahahah. 4-0!

Welcome CC! Indeed, cleaning is not recommended! The other thing to remember is that we like photos of coins as much as, if not more than, talking about them. You might like to look at the thread here: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/7880-posting-pics/ As for the 1800s life was very similar but TV was rubbish and there were no mobile phones. Or was that the 1980s? I forget ...

Another attempt to get a decent photo of my 'Marianne' theme advertising jeton as I'm jolly pleased with it. Shiny things sure are tricky to photograph aren't they? To my eye, it's more lustrous in the hand and has hints of blue, but I'm just to lazy for a proper photographic setup so ...

Finally (for now!) #3 Spink 2791 Sharp E1/2 (again, oddly not in Brooker, this is the first bust of the type with the second reverse and again, none to easy to find) Ex Noble Sale 77 Nov 04 Lot 788 £120 I've added the Noble listing as the old scans are not brilliant. If anyone wants (hopefully better) photos I'll give it a go, just ask. Prices given include insured postage to a UK address. Overseas .. I'll check. Thanks!

I'm after some cash so thought I'd see if anyone is interested in some coins. Probably nothing to excite most people, but there are some trickier-to-find types although all are in well circulated condition! If anyone is interested, pm me. Payment ideally by bank transfer. #1 Spink 2789 Sharp D1/1 (as Brooker 468,469) Difficult to find this first bust in any condition. Ex Spink Sale 1010 24 Jun 10, part Lot 142 (only the reverse of the coin illustrated) £90 #2 Spink 2795 Sharp F2/1 'Aberystwyth' bust series. (Oddly, no example in Brooker) Comes with both small and large mark of value, this one is small. Ex Clarendon Collection (Bonhams Oct 06 Lot#1329) £120

Nice example Rob. As Peter says, if it's a wooden chest some woods have oils or resins that could affect tone over time. But last time I went to Spink they still brought coins in mahogany trays. Only thing is you'll hear about 'cabinet friction' which is basically light wear to the highest points on a coin. This is thought to be caused by a coin sliding around as drawers are opened and closed (though may sometimes just be a fancy way of saying slightly worn!) Trays with compartments or something like felt under the coins will minimise this. I store my coins in a mix of things from wraps of paper (Dad used the pages of one of those tear-off-the-date calendar for some of his), small acid-free paper envelopes and plastic 'flips' (a pair of hinged transparent plastic pockets, one for the coin the other for a bit of paper to write details - if you have any of these from your earlier collecting days might be worth moving the coins I say this because coins often used to come in PVC flips, including the little plastic envelopes banks supplied commemorative crowns etc in, and PVC can damage coins.) Better coins I have a commercial coin box with plastic trays covered in 'felt' (if you look up Lindner or Lighthouse trays, that sort of thing) and the main collection is in a wooden coin cabinet in drawers: Like you, I prefer to be able to pick up my coins. Just bear in mind, in a traditional cabinet tray it's tricky not to touch the coin surfaces occasionally as you get them out. That's why for the more modern shiny ones I keep them in 2x2 type holders. For the coin you showed above, I doubt that will be much of a problem though.

LOL Welcome Rob. Bottom line is that coins can be handled if it's done carefully, however if you just look at the coins in your change you will see that the toning (original colour) and lustre (sheen) of newly struck copper coins can go quite quickly if they are exposed to certain conditions. The important thing is not to touch the top or bottom surfaces (obverse/reverse) as the moisture and oils on your fingers will leave traces that will darken with time. Of course, there is nothing wrong (to my eyes at least) with a toned copper or bronze coin. Here's one of mine (Copper, about the size of an old shilling and with (I think) a nice chocolate brown tone, though slightly different 'in the hand' as I edited the seller's pics as I've yet to get round to taking my own photos!): Obviously it's still preferable to only pick them up by the edges, avoid dropping the things and don't give them to children with jammy fingers to play with. Alternatively for the better/ pricier coins capsules made of plastic can be used. However I sympathise in that I too like to handle my coins. Mine however are generally silver and have been around for a few hundred years so being picked up is less likely to leave marks than shiny copper. But if you're not aiming for 'as struck' examples or proofs then, why not. You'll still probably want something (a file or box) to store them in. You don't want them knocking against each other, exposed to damp or salty air. Also avoid coins with verdegris (that green deposit you can find on copper) as it can spread. Look for clean coins with 'eye appeal' and you should be OK. Chris (forum owner) publishes and stocks a number of books on coins that might help. Plus (I think out of print but still available) there's a grading book by Derek Allen (another member here) which might be of interest still on Amazon if you have a Kindle. Not sure if there's an ePub version - you'd need to ask Chris about that. Grade (condition/wear) affects price, so it's something you may need to consider. Plus with many coins (and pennies in particular) there are many minor different varieties. But in many cases you need a coin in reasonable condition to be able to tell the difference as they can be small. What I originally did with shillings was try to collect the first year of issue and then an example of each major change in design. That might be more practical than a coin from each decade as some reigns there are many varieties, others few? Budget? Down to personal preference really. Some here only collect coins that look as if they were made an hour ago. Others, so long as they can identify what it is, they are happy. OK, better grade coins will normally keep their value if ever you sell. But it's a hobby and there's no point collecting things you don't enjoy collecting or because someone else says that's best! Collect what you like. But don't be surprised if that changes over time. It certainly did with me.

Cool denarius! I also like David's (bit scrappy but crisp) drachm of Napki Malka. As for Scott, I wonder if it's like those programmes on hoarding? One day there will be a news article on a bloke that has to be dug out of his house because he's buried in coins and can't get to the toaster! As for me, I picked this up yesterday. Another not-a-coin. This time an advertising jeton for an aperitif! Not dated but presumably from the end of the 19th century. Brass and about the diameter (though half the weight) of an old shilling. The interesting thing (for me) is that the design for Marianne seems to be based on that of Eugène André Oudiné. This (AFAIK) was never used for any French coins, although he was a designer at the Paris mint (and known for the bust of Ceres that appeared on French coins from 1849-98), but it was used for many years in Argentina. Presumably there were no copyright laws in those days ..