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No, that wasn't my point at all. I left the shilling out of the argument altogether, it being the only denomination where the new design was issued for circulation. I'll rephrase: why do the 1927 threepence, florin, and the new design sixpence and half crown appear to command such widely different market values?

And Florin.

I'm not sure Ron Vibbentrop agrees...

No, a brockage is where a coin gets stuck below the die, so when the next blank arrives the stuck coin imprints itself on it giving an incuse version of the entire design.

I see, so maybe a lump of the has broken off leaving an area to be filled in by the coin when minting.... awesome 👍

The 'compelling reason' is whether there's a currency version of the proof coin (e.g. the shilling) or whether the 1927 exists only as a proof, e.g. the threepence.

Looks like a cud?

Wow. I've seen the "original" (which you have?) and have always assumed - correctly or not - that it's a proof or pattern created to test the actual true non-mule type that would be seen in 1927. By the way, D+d cannot be a mule, unlike the actual 1926ME - it's what the 26ME WOULD have been if they hadn't been in such a hurry to 1) get the small supply of 1926 pennies where they were unexpectedly needed, and 2) were fully resourced supervising the changeover to the Modified Effigy for all denominations, plus preparing the new reverses for 1927.

It's not a common flaw and I am not certain if I have seen it before. In this grade, the flaw wouldn't make a difference. Both the obverse and reverse designs are really nice.

Minor modifications were probably quite often made, and I guess we will never know all of them. Many years ago I looked into minor changes made to the 1958 Halfpenny with different teeth lengths and rim widths. All were done on a scanner so as to have exactly the same proportions with no distorted pictures, and the result was four types. Even the ship size varies as shown with two differing coins spliced together. below

It might have been that two or more Working dies were struck with just the 192 with the last digit 6 being stamped on separately before use .

This 1819 George III Crown..... I'm not sure if its been shown before however it wasn't in a folder, loose with others. I did note that above the date a flaw....across the engravers name P I S T R U C C I Is this a common flaw with this date?

I can believe that more than one trial die was produced while they were considering the final design of the 1927 reverse and it's possible that several coins were struck from the new dies with strict instructions that they never leave the Mint - but they did !

I see what you mean, Terry. How curious... Would they really have made two dies for this experiment?? Just to add another spanner in things, here's a picture of a normal (albeit missing waves) 1931 reverse (from Richard's site) which also seems to have the smaller Britannia, longer teeth, thinner thumb, bigger gap from trident to teeth etc such as Richard has identified for these trial pieces. Are there actually BOTH subtly different Gouby reverse d's known for all dates 1927 to 1936, perhaps as a result of hubbing variations, and so this could after all be a doctored 1927 piece???? Or is it just for 1931? I'm going to have to trawl through all my GV pennies later!! If anyone on the forum did buy it, PLEASE have a good look at it through a microscope!

Fu Funnily Enough I sent a message to Richard at exactly the same time as you posted here Martin saying exactly the same thing, but that because both ME coins have the small Britanniar neither coin could have been modified post Mint as this obverse and reverse had never been present together on any other year penny , So therefore both must be Experimental dies from the Mint

Hi Richard. I saw it at the time and was considering putting a bid in but concluded it was a doctored specimen: the 6 on the LCA specimen is surrounded by lighter coloured metal consistent with it having been transplanted from another coin onto an original 1927 coin. Quite apart from that, it would have to be a different die too as on your ex-Freeman one, the 6 is over a gap between teeth and rotated slightly clockwise, whereas on the LCA one, the 6 is bolt upright and over a tooth. I can't believe two trial dies were produced striking one coin each! Happy to be proved wrong if anyone here did buy it and microscopy eliminates my suspicions...

Exciting news ! Terry Eagleton has just pointed out to me that a 1926 penny was sold at London Coin auction in 2025 described as a F195 Modified Effigy but is, in fact, only the second ever "recorded" instance of the rare Gouby D+d Mule, i.e a coin with the Modified Effigy obverse but the true 1927 reverse. Obviously it was not recorded by LCA, but it is indeed the second known example. The first example was discovered by Michael Freeman and bought by me. If anyone on the Forum bought this coin. I would love to know more. Auction 190, lot 2174.

One proof set in original cardboard box 3d to Crown 6 coins for sale at the Wynyard Coin Center, Sydney $A1500 or GBP 750.

There's something I find curious about the market for the new 1927 coins. Tony Clayton's site lists the threepence at £140, sixpence £75, florin £170, and half crown £120. Ebay asking prices tend to be a bit higher but from my observation tend to follow a similar pattern. I don't see any compelling reason why they shouldn't all fetch roughly the same. Possibly some date-run collectors might be satisfied with a old-style sixpence and half crown and not see the need to include the new version?

Which is where I got one for £180

Like I say Coin King has 2 for about GBP 160 and one for GBP 150.

I used the word probably which is a guess that there probably more potential collectors than coins to satisfy the potential demand from that amount of collectors. 15000 is not a huge amount of coins for example a 1905 half crown has a published mintage of 166008 and you would require a lot of money to obtain a good example. It's called supply and demand. Maybe there are more collectors of half crowns than florins and as the 1905 half crown was issued for circulation less of the total would survive in good condition but even a worn example attracts a fairly high price. Recently I saw one for sale in fine condition for GBP 440.

My information shows 717,041 1932 Florins. Not a huge number, but compared to the 15,000 of 1927 they're fairly easy to find. An XF40 NGC rated one is on eprey for $294 at the moment. Others for $50+ are there as well. Finding a 1927 was much more difficult.

Can I ask how you calculated the number of florin collectors, I’d love to do something similar with Elizabeth I and Plantagenet pennies.

Agreed for 1887 and 1893. However 1902. 1911, 1927 and 1937 were all released in significant numbers. 1911 being the smallest. As for the 1932 florin only 15k with no general issue. There are probably more than 15000 collectors worldwide collecting date runs of UK florins.