Opinions please 1820 Half Crown

[Nonmortuus]

Hi all, could have some opinions on the following please before I take the plunge?

1820 Half Crown

I believe it to be EF but wanted a second opinion. Also do you feel the toning is natural?

Is there anything about this that concerns you? Does it look polished etc?

Thanks

Non

[PWA 1967]

Not my thing but looks like it might of had a rub?

I may well be wrong ,just does not look right to me .

[hazelman]

Looks as though it may have been cleaned

[Nonmortuus]

Thank you for the fast replies. I was worried that it had been polished. Also is that sort of rainbow toning gnerally frowned upon?

[Paulus]

Doesn't quite make EF for me. perhaps GVF / NEF, and the obverse in particular definitely looks polished.

I quite like natural toning, I find it can be very attractive if it's not patchy. I wouldn't describe this coin as having 'rainbow' toning however, that suggests to me the kind of unnatural effects that some US collectors seem to prefer, even when obtained artificially, for example

[Coinery]

I don't think the colour is really an issue, as it's not rainbow toning in the classic sense.

I also think it may of had an obverse polish, with quite a few field marks, especially in the right field.

Definitely an in-hand coin, and something you'd have to be 100% happy you could return without fuss or argument. I don't recognise the seller, so couldn't comment on his honour.

Good luck, NM

[Coinery]

Touché Paulus!

I do think it makes EF though!

[Peter]

There is a big £ difference between VF and EF makes this dangerous ground.

[Paulus]

There is a big £ difference between VF and EF makes this dangerous ground.

I completely agree.

My grade assessment of GVF on the obverse is based on this seller's pic (It's all we have to go on, as usual)

For me there is too much wear on the ear, the leaves and the hair, in particular, for it to make EF. Other opinions?

[Coinery]

The reverse is considerably better! Look at the 'hip coil' on the angel, and the thistle for example? Also the rim in the second quarter?

It's difficult to technically grade the obverse, as we are all pretty much agreed it's polished (possibly)! However, overall, taking the entire coin into account (not the eye-appeal, lustre or tone, or scratches), I'm still going with EF! BUT, that's not to say EF money!

[Paulus]

I agree, the reverse is considerably better. And definitely NOT EF money, with all those digs and dings on the obv!

[Paulus]

I do enjoy these grading debates, love hearing how others view things.

It's possible that I have become a little too strict over recent years, but I would expect an EF later milled piece to at least show the lions' faces. Seller's pics on the left, my example of the same type on the right. As a benchmark, I would grade mine as EF, with " Slight wear on high spots on close inspection, and all other detail clear and sharp", while, for me, the coin on the left clearly has more wear than that

[PWA 1967]

If its cleaned ,keep your money in your pocket as another one will turn up.

If you buy one and decide to sell ,someone else will buy it if its problem free.

Pete.

[Coinery]

I do enjoy these grading debates, love hearing how others view things.

It's possible that I have become a little too strict over recent years, but I would expect an EF later milled piece to at least show the lions' faces. Seller's pics on the left, my example of the same type on the right. As a benchmark, I would grade mine as EF, with " Slight wear on high spots on close inspection, and all other detail clear and sharp", while, for me, the coin on the left clearly has more wear than that

Even taking the polish out of this conversation, there is a massive difference in strike/die-wear and clogs - especially so between these two coins.

Many of the components BELOW the traditional wear areas are also very muted on the OP coin...the feathers of the angel's wing, the feathering on the legs of the lions, etc..

Unfortunately your cropped images take the reverses out of context, as the rim on the second quarter, thistle and main crown on the OP coin are major considerations in deciding die-wear, at least they are for me anyway?

Now, don't get me wrong, because I am not defending this coin at all, I most certainly wouldn't buy it, and wouldn't recommend that NM does either.

[Paulus]

A good point, Stu, well made

I am genuinely interested in understanding your thought process, it definitely sounds more sophisticated than mine!

Here are comparison pics of the 2 reverses in full:

[Coinery]

Nothing sophisticated at all, Paul, your's is clearly a better coin, and a far superior image!

I'm guessing CGS gave your's EF? But then we are onto a different ball game altogether.

[azda]

I'm also going with GVF/NEF, its had a clean at some Point in its life, retoned Naturally/artificially but the tone highlights the dings/nicks and previous polishing/cleaning wonderfully, especially on the REV. I'm sure Londoncoins has a few for sale in their auction..

Take a Look, its free and you can also bid there

[Coinery]

OK, look, I've been taking a long look at this coin again this morning, but on the laptop this time, and will concede to NEF overall, but obviously polished and retoned at some point, so worth peanuts to a seasoned collector.

However, I'd still like to know the grade that CGS gave the other one, Paulus? Especially as this was the coin used to beat me into submission and force the grade of the other one down by a half-grade in my eyes!