Nordle11 Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Hi gents,Need some second opinions if possible please!I have this 1861 halfpenny which I think could be an F over P but just want a little clarification if anyone can help..I've run a nib between the gaps in the bars of the F and I can feel a bump, but unfortunately these varieties are easier to spot when they wear flat.Any help is appreciated as alwaysNordle Quote
Nordle11 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Posted May 28, 2015 Thanks Bob, great example as well.So I can certaintly see the upright bar of the underlying P in both pictures, and an even closer picture looks OK as well-I still have doubts though Quote
Coinery Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Thanks Bob, great example as well.So I can certaintly see the upright bar of the underlying P in both pictures, and an even closer picture looks OK as well-I still have doubts though Prelimenarily looking at the spacings above the F I'd say the two examples are likely from different dies! That being said, I think it would be a struggle to deny you an underlying letter, which is likely a P to be fair? Quote
Coinery Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 However, looking at the bulge above the top bar of the F could also point at die-damage, much like the recently debated open/closed mouth horse on the reverse of the veiled-head crowns? ? Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Looks like an F/P to me...I'm on my cell phone so the image is small...Check which obverse it is...It exists with both obverse 6 & obverse 7...Obverse 7 being the scarcer of the two... Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 isn't that reverse E? I believe it is a reverse E I believe the f/p to be unknown on reverse E.... we would need images of the obverse to determine what is correct die pairing is...This might be a new discovery if it is indeed an F/P.... Quote
RLC35 Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 I found a picture of a circulated "HALP" Half Penny, that looks a lot like the pic that was featured at the start of this thread. It does look like your coin is a HALP Half Penny! Congratulations! Quote
Nordle11 Posted May 29, 2015 Author Posted May 29, 2015 Thanks for the comments I'm getting closer haha!Here's the obverse..I still wonder though, if you say it's rev. E and there's no example on that reverse.. Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 These'll probably be better..Obverse 5 Reverse E...F-274 Quote
Nordle11 Posted May 29, 2015 Author Posted May 29, 2015 Thanks BCC, so is there no known F over P for this die combination then?So... what's under that F??? Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 Thanks BCC, so is there no known F over P for this die combination then?So... what's under that F??? Not that I am aware of....I have the F/P with obverses 6 & 7.. Reverse G....I will have to check my F-274's now....I have seen some that were misleading Quote
Rob Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 It could just as easily be a short flaw joining the extremities of the F arms given the width of the 'P' loop is not full size. Quote
Nordle11 Posted May 29, 2015 Author Posted May 29, 2015 When compared to the first real example by Bob, it does seem like a smaller 'P' loop on mine, but against his second example the loops like identical in size, the serifs on the F go slightly past the P loop.But it's more concerning that there aren't any F over P examples with this die combintation.I spoke to a dealer for a second 'in hand' opinion and he believes it's dirt, after playing around with it for a while. But it's just so perfectly aligned and the dirt elsewhere doesn't give the same effect on the coin, especially as I can feel the bump where the P should be.Not sure what can be done to be 100% certain, maybe this is the first 5+E F over P example to surface...someone had to find the first in the other die combos.. Thanks all for the help as always. Quote
Nordle11 Posted May 29, 2015 Author Posted May 29, 2015 Here's a side by side of Bob's second example and mine.The loop looks to be in the same place, and the upright bar of F seems to be a little wider on Bob's example, which would be consistent with part of the upright bar in P being slightly visable and then the F wearing down to blend into the P, hence the bigger bar. Quote
Coinery Posted May 29, 2015 Posted May 29, 2015 They certainly look convincing side by side! What's really needed now is a super-macro image of it to really take a proper look?Is that a raised bulge above the top bar of the F or an optical illusion? Quote
Nordle11 Posted August 24, 2015 Author Posted August 24, 2015 Finally have the coin back with me and want to get a microscope of some sort to check if this is an F over P or not, can anyone recommend something that will work nicely but wont break the bank?The loupe I have is sufficient for most things and this is the first I've needed a microscope (probably due to it being a halfpenny which isn't my normal collecting area) so I don't want to spend loads on something I'll not use that often.. Quote
Coinery Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Finally have the coin back with me and want to get a microscope of some sort to check if this is an F over P or not, can anyone recommend something that will work nicely but wont break the bank?The loupe I have is sufficient for most things and this is the first I've needed a microscope (probably due to it being a halfpenny which isn't my normal collecting area) so I don't want to spend loads on something I'll not use that often..You could balance a powerful magnifying glass over the coin, or maybe even a loupe, and take a macro photo of the glass itself? Just a thought? Quote
Rob Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 If it is that difficult to see then you would have just as much difficulty persuading someone else that it is what you say it is. Quote
Nordle11 Posted August 24, 2015 Author Posted August 24, 2015 Great idea but unfortunately I don't have anything to take a macro shot with I just came back from a visit to relatives as well, and they've got a great SLR with a macro lens, bugger! Quote
Nordle11 Posted August 24, 2015 Author Posted August 24, 2015 If it is that difficult to see then you would have just as much difficulty persuading someone else that it is what you say it is.Tis a good point, but it's difficult to see by eye because the coin is bloody tiny haha.. In the pictures above it looks like there's an underlying P, that's why I want to check.A few people above believed that it was an F over P before we established it was on a die combination that is unknown for this error, and if it's a first then I'd rather be sure?That's why I don't want to spend a fortune just to check this one coin.. Quote
Nutsaboutcoins Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Finally have the coin back with me and want to get a microscope of some sort to check if this is an F over P or not, can anyone recommend something that will work nicely but wont break the bank?The loupe I have is sufficient for most things and this is the first I've needed a microscope (probably due to it being a halfpenny which isn't my normal collecting area) so I don't want to spend loads on something I'll not use that often..USB Microscopes you can plug into a PC or laptop are reasonably cheep these days. 1 Quote
PWA 1967 Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Nordle the one i mentioned in a previous pm is the best one .I was told about it from a forum member ,about £40 delivered.Unless you want to spend a lot more they are really good.Leave the ones at £20 alone the images are garbage.Pete. 1 Quote
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