More Pennies

[secret santa 2,016]

Whatever system is adopted, there will always need to be an "owner" to arbitrate on whether a proposed obverse or reverse type is, or is not, a uniquely defined type. For example, Freeman did not distinguish between the 2 obverses used for circulation and proof 1953 pennies, the only difference between them being a single additional border bead and thus a slightly different alignment of legend to beads. Gouby's Victoria reverse ja is so minutely different from reverse j that some may argue that they're essentially the same. Freeman's George VI obverses 1 and 2 differ by the minutest of legend to tooth alignments, so minute that Gouby calls them the same. Good luck (and thick skin) to whoever is prepared to take this on.

[terrysoldpennies 691]

6 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Whatever system is adopted, there will always need to be an "owner" to arbitrate on whether a proposed obverse or reverse type is, or is not, a uniquely defined type. For example, Freeman did not distinguish between the 2 obverses used for circulation and proof 1953 pennies, the only difference between them being a single additional border bead and thus a slightly different alignment of legend to beads. Gouby's Victoria reverse ja is so minutely different from reverse j that some may argue that they're essentially the same. Freeman's George VI obverses 1 and 2 differ by the minutest of legend to tooth alignments, so minute that Gouby calls them the same. Good luck (and thick skin) to whoever is prepared to take this on.

It was easier in Freemans day , no on line flak then

[Colin G. 147]

The trouble is that whether or not a particular variety gets included or classified as a design type, is inevitably up for interpretation. Unless you drop back to the most basic of design types or go in the opposite direction and classify every working die. Inevitably we as collectors will sit somewhere in between the two extremes. 

Given the fact that we can't agree on a grade for a coin I think there is little chance of there being someone who produces a system that satisfies everyone ....or even a majority. I have a set of thresholds that determine whether a variety gets included, but even I think it is flawed to some extent and have to continually review what I consider to be reasonable and relevant.

We all like a finite number of choices...but just let that OCD slide and realise it is never going to happen 

[Rob 3,002]

6 minutes ago, Colin G. said:

The trouble is that whether or not a particular variety gets included or classified as a design type, is inevitably up for interpretation. Unless you drop back to the most basic of design types or go in the opposite direction and classify every working die. Inevitably we as collectors will sit somewhere in between the two extremes. 

Given the fact that we can't agree on a grade for a coin I think there is little chance of there being someone who produces a system that satisfies everyone ....or even a majority. I have a set of thresholds that determine whether a variety gets included, but even I think it is flawed to some extent and have to continually review what I consider to be reasonable and relevant.

We all like a finite number of choices...but just let that OCD slide and realise it is never going to happen 

I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't..................... - well, maybe I can sometimes.

[1949threepence 3,366]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Whatever system is adopted, there will always need to be an "owner" to arbitrate on whether a proposed obverse or reverse type is, or is not, a uniquely defined type. For example, Freeman did not distinguish between the 2 obverses used for circulation and proof 1953 pennies, the only difference between them being a single additional border bead and thus a slightly different alignment of legend to beads. Gouby's Victoria reverse ja is so minutely different from reverse j that some may argue that they're essentially the same. Freeman's George VI obverses 1 and 2 differ by the minutest of legend to tooth alignments, so minute that Gouby calls them the same. Good luck (and thick skin) to whoever is prepared to take this on.

One could argue that in terms of difference from the otherwise accepted norm, we are down to the most exquisite minutiae, such as one extra border bead, or some such. Is the mainstream collector really that interested in those kind of variances? Where does coin "type" end and coin "curio" begin? 

Moreover, the big money rarities are those which are immediately obvious to the naked eye. For example if you have a Freeman 27 and a Freeman 90, both in say, VF, on offer, it's manifestly obvious which is going to net the greater spoils for the vendor. Despite the fact that technically, the F27 is rarer than the F90, the F90 will always go for more money. Witness the Bamford sale where his F27 went for £540, and his F90 for £3,100. Both not dissimilar condition.  

I don't really know to be honest. The above is just a few musings from my perspective. 

   

[secret santa 2,016]

Terry's new Victoria obverse with 2 extra teeth got me pretty excited.

[terrysoldpennies 691]

57 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Terry's new Victoria obverse with 2 extra teeth got me pretty excited.

Oh Richard ,you really should get out more ,as should I.   Terry

[PWA 1967 1,841]

CGS have recently slabbed the Edward V111 1937 Proof Penny with a price given as..................£225,000.00 

For anyone who can access  the site and interested the UIN is 40865.

Pete.

Edited January 15, 2017 by PWA 1967

[secret santa 2,016]

Can you download pics Pete ?

[1949threepence 3,366]

2 hours ago, secret santa said:

Can you download pics Pete ?

You should be able to see it in this link Richard.

The link to the actual site page is here Scroll down a short way and you'll see the 1937.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by 1949threepence

[secret santa 2,016]

Magnificent...................

[terrysoldpennies 691]

39 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Magnificent...................

http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/Default.aspx?PageID=13601015&A=SearchResult&SearchID=2355145&ObjectID=13601015&ObjectType=1

Great Richard, just pop me down for couple please.     Just thought you might like the link to the Mints Edw. viii pennies http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/Default.aspx?PageID=13601015&A=SearchResult&SearchID=2355145&ObjectID=13601015&ObjectType=1  Terry

Edited January 15, 2017 by terrysoldpennies

[secret santa 2,016]

Only one per customer, I'm afraid, Terry

[terrysoldpennies 691]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Magnificent...................

Sorry this link is more direct.http://collection.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/?mwsQueryTemplate=%5B%7Bcontrol%3DcountryList%7D%7Bindex%3Dcountry%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D%5B%7Bcontrol%3DrulerList%7D%7Bindex%3Druler%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D%5B%7Bcontrol%3DdenominationList%7D%7Bindex%3Ddenomination%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D%5B%7Bcontrol%3DdateList%7D%7Bindex%3Ddate%7D%7Brelation%3D*%3D*%7D%5D&countryList=United+Kingdom&rulerList=Edward+VIII&denominationList=penny&dateList=1937&page=resulta

[azda 973]

On 1/12/2017 at 4:11 PM, secret santa said:

Terry's new Victoria obverse with 2 extra teeth got me pretty excited.

I had to get a tissue due to the excitement 

[1949threepence 3,366]

3 hours ago, secret santa said:

Magnificent...................

Thing of beauty. 

[declanwmagee 122]

I think I'll give it a miss, never really been keen on proofs...

[mrbadexample 985]

11 hours ago, declanwmagee said:

I think I'll give it a miss, never really been keen on proofs...

Too many fingerprints for me. I'll pass too.

[Nordle11 564]

On 11/1/2017 at 0:04 PM, Mr T said:

What extra varieties does it mention?

I tend to stick to Freeman but also look out for any new dies as reported by Gouby and the penny people here. I avoid all flaws, date varieties, re-entered letters etc to keep things manageable.

 

On 11/1/2017 at 0:49 PM, Nordle11 said:

I'll let you know of anything interesting when it arrives.

Here you go gents. Happy reading.

 

[secret santa 2,016]

Thanks Matt

[secret santa 2,016]

Matt, is there anything important beneath the black splodge top right (click on tools etc etc) ?

[Nordle11 564]

7 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Matt, is there anything important beneath the black splodge top right (click on tools etc etc) ?

Sorry about that, fixed it. Just quantities, rarity.

[Gary1000 41]

21 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Thing of beauty. 

Obv B Rev b unlisted by Freeman so must be an early mint of the currency.

[PWA 1967 1,841]

1 hour ago, Gary1000 said:

Obv B Rev b unlisted by Freeman so must be an early mint of the currency.

I dont think any currency were produced and is F216

Edited January 16, 2017 by PWA 1967

[1949threepence 3,366]

Thanks Matt. That was a very interesting article.