1949threepence Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 On 9/14/2020 at 8:02 AM, alfnail said: The 1857 Gouby Date Style C is seen paired with both OT and PT; I have both types in my collection. I'm pretty sure I have seen it paired with the Ornamental Trident less often, but I have not attempted any stats on this. The most interesting one I have found is this one (Plain Trident Reverse), which has a 'repaired' numeral 8. Just back from holiday last night, internet was not good whilst away. Can see I missed a few posts about Victorian Copper pennies, and think I may have a few additional comments to make when get time. Pleased to say I have now managed to get one paired with OT. So now have the type in both PT & OT. They are really not easy to find, but wasn't ID'd as one by the seller - a lesser known type perhaps:- 2 Quote
Martinminerva Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 Just seen this on eBay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Die-Number-3-Nice-Grade-Extremely-RARE/233786563271?hash=item366ec3dac7:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx Really don't think so!! Beware! Do others concur?? Quote
JLS Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Martinminerva said: Just seen this on eBay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Die-Number-3-Nice-Grade-Extremely-RARE/233786563271?hash=item366ec3dac7:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx Really don't think so!! Beware! Do others concur?? Usual Lukasz nonsense. Definitely not a die 3 penny, just a reasonably nice circulated 1863. If bidders are sensible it will go somewhere between £15-40. 1 Quote
secret santa Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 Lukasz certainly has got green fingers when it comes to finding rarities. Quote
1949threepence Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 If that's a three, I'm Mother Teresa. 1 Quote
JLS Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, secret santa said: Lukasz certainly has got green fingers when it comes to finding rarities. He's not that bad actually, he sold a real die letter halfpenny a while back, went for a very reasonable £50 (although only Poor or so) given that some people were a bit overly cautious. I buy a fair bit from him, but you have to ignore the description and just look at the pictures, which are normally clear enough to understand exactly what's on offer. It's nice when he beats you to a bulk lot at auction because you know ~ everything will end up on eBay so you get a second chance to snag anything you particularly liked... 1 Quote
AtlasNumismatics Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 10:09 AM, AtlasNumismatics said: Thank you very much @alfnail and everyone else for your useful comments. These die characteristics match perfectly and we will assume it is a degraded 5/5 punch and submit for reholder at PCGS. Dear All, PCGS has reviewed this piece and still believes it to be 5/4, although they haven't given any further reasoning. They have declined to modify the description on the insert so you will see it in the PCGS population report as such. Quote
PWA 1967 Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 45 minutes ago, AtlasNumismatics said: Dear All, PCGS has reviewed this piece and still believes it to be 5/4, although they haven't given any further reasoning. They have declined to modify the description on the insert so you will see it in the PCGS population report as such. Unfortunately i dont think unless something is brought to there attention the American grading companies knowledge in varieties for British copper pennies is something they specialize in. You recently had a few that were listed on eBay and none of the varieties were attributed which although may not make them worth anymore i feel might help you to sell them. Quote
Martinminerva Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 7 hours ago, Martinminerva said: Just seen this on eBay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Die-Number-3-Nice-Grade-Extremely-RARE/233786563271?hash=item366ec3dac7:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx Really don't think so!! Beware! Do others concur?? I see it's already at £155 !! Some people are really gullible... Hope no-one on here is bidding. Surely if you're willing to pay a three figure sum (or maybe more ultimately) for a "rarity", you'd think you'd know enough about coins to know that this IS NOT a die number penny. I think it has actually been doctored to masquerade as such - and not very well at that! Any guesses what it will finally make?! And then for whoever buys it, any guesses as to when they'll realise they've been burnt! Presumably if and when they try to resell... Fools! 1 Quote
1949threepence Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Martinminerva said: I see it's already at £155 !! Some people are really gullible... Hope no-one on here is bidding. Surely if you're willing to pay a three figure sum (or maybe more ultimately) for a "rarity", you'd think you'd know enough about coins to know that this IS NOT a die number penny. I think it has actually been doctored to masquerade as such - and not very well at that! Any guesses what it will finally make?! And then for whoever buys it, any guesses as to when they'll realise they've been burnt! Presumably if and when they try to resell... Fools! The moment they open the packet, and then frantically look through a magnifier to know for sure they've been shafted. Even then some would be in denial. Quote
jelida Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) Lukasz clearly has a good knowledge of coin rarities, or he could not mis-describe them so regularly; I think it must be a deliberate sales ploy, as it enhances the prices and even if some are returned he wins; it is not a victimless pursuit however, as less knowledgable collectors/investors can be guided by the supposed good reputation of an established EBay seller, and whenever this trust in ‘experts’ is broken genuine honest dealers are likely tarred with the same brush and overall trade suffers. Not to forget the many enthusiastic but less knowledgeable collectors happily enjoying their expensive though ‘ bargain priced‘ trays of ‘mint errors’, rarities and Saxon pennies from Poland where they are now ‘found’ in greater numbers than the Vikings ever took over. They will end up bitten. Jerry Edited November 18, 2020 by jelida 1 Quote
secret santa Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 I've temporarily added this to my rare penny site as a "non-example" just in case someone looks on there but I guess the people who are bidding on this coin are probably not aware of the site. 1 Quote
Iannich48 Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 Even London Coins have a fairly decent picture of a die number 3. Looks nothing like the one on ebay, unsurprisingly. 3 Quote
JLS Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, Martinminerva said: I think it has actually been doctored to masquerade as such - and not very well at that! I don't think so...I think it's just a surface lamination or even a gouge...it's so totally unconvincing it's hard to imagine anyone considering a successful "doctoring" ! The "3" is not even in the right place. But the price is shocking; let's hope it's the vendor bidding against himself (he can do that without scrutiny because it's a private listing sadly). 2 Quote
Michael-Roo Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 Now £255, with eight days still to run. People are mental. 1 1 1 Quote
JLS Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Michael-Roo said: Now £255, with eight days still to run. People are mental. If I didn't often buy things from Lucas, I'd be tempted to put £1k on it or something and then just not pay when I won, on the grounds that it is not as described. But I'm afraid I'd probably end up on his blocked bidder list. Quote
secret santa Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 Just to confirm it's not genuine, it doesn't have the die flaw by the O of ONE. 1 Quote
1949threepence Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, JLS said: If I didn't often buy things from Lucas, I'd be tempted to put £1k on it or something and then just not pay when I won, on the grounds that it is not as described. But I'm afraid I'd probably end up on his blocked bidder list. Although the price is a bit of a giveaway. If it were truly an 1863 die no 3 under date in that higher grade condition, it would already be a lot higher as more experienced collectors realised what it was. In auction it would almost certainly go for probably > £6k, as it would easily be the best of the very small cohort. 1 Quote
JLS Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, 1949threepence said: Although the price is a bit of a giveaway. If it were truly an 1863 die no 3 under date in that higher grade condition, it would already be a lot higher as more experienced collectors realised what it was. In auction it would almost certainly go for probably > £6k, as it would easily be the best of the very small cohort. Maybe, although I think experienced collectors tend to snipe things on eBay. When there was an 1860 TB/BB mule on eBay last, it went from £250 to £1k in the last 5 seconds if I recall rightly. Quote
Martinminerva Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, secret santa said: It's gone !!! The page now says "the listing is no longer available." That often means the seller has sold it off-platform! Wonder if some idiot made him an offer he couldn't refuse?! Keep eyes peeled, though, in case it is relisted with a different or more accurate description! Edited November 21, 2020 by Martinminerva Typo! Quote
1949threepence Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Martinminerva said: The page now says "the listing is no longer available." That often means the seller has sold it off-platform! Wonder if some idiot made him an offer he couldn't refuse?! Keep eyes peeled, though, in case it is resisted with a different or more accurate description! If so, the buyer will be in for a severe disappointment. Always best to compare with a verified example of the real thing before you commit yourself to buy anything with a degree of uncertainty attached to it. 1 Quote
Martinminerva Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 I have culled this from his original listing... So, some cretin had put a bid in of £2850 ! Wonder if the same cretin put that offer to him?? Or was it a deliberate ploy to "win" and never pay as was mentioned above? That's been done many times before to dubious lots. Quote
Martinminerva Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 37 minutes ago, Martinminerva said: Keep eyes peeled, though, in case it is relisted with a different or more accurate description! He has... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Nice-Grade/333797053007?hash=item4db7dad24f:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx No mention of the "die number" now! But, interesting to see he now has a best offer option available for it - Lukasz doesn't usually do that, so maybe he has listed it for the idiot to put an idiotic offer in! Watch closely over the next few hours to see if it does sell!! Quote
mrbadexample Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 55 minutes ago, Martinminerva said: I have culled this from his original listing... So, some cretin had put a bid in of £2850 ! Wonder if the same cretin put that offer to him?? Or was it a deliberate ploy to "win" and never pay as was mentioned above? That's been done many times before to dubious lots. The first 5 of these were cancelled at the same time. Curious. Quote
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