Alex Salmond

[Geordie582]

I just hope simmering resentments, long held by the Scots, will not now tear that country apart.

I hope the example of the Maoist Alex Salmond will serve a lesson - don't listen to rabble rousers

Edited September 19, 2014 by Geordie582

[Gary1000]

Okay, so I know the map above is a flippant comment, but the more serious question has to be - are there any true borders?

Most of Africa, E.Europe & the Middle East have borders reflecting either past colonial land grabs or provisions of the Treaty of Versailles - neither of which paid any notice of the wishes of local populations, or respected ethnic, religious or cultural traditions.

New borders cause their own problems - look at the horrors of the relocation of populations between Greece & Turkey, or post independence India & Pakistan.

Most separatists dream of a return to their own perceived "Golden Age" - so post Yugoslav Serbia wanted a return to the borders prior the the battle of Kosovo Polje in 1389 (defeat by the Ottomans), I witnessed the aftermath personally in Kosova in 2001

So I'm an internationalist, BUT with a strong belief in subsidiarity. The UK is better in Europe in my view, but England does need urgent decentralisation with more decision making at regional level.

Hopefully Westminster will take note of the Scottish result, be interesting to see the parties' manifestos for next year's general election

David

The MPs will have completely forgotten about it all by the end of next week. As they say "seven days is a long time in politics".

Looking at that spending per head it's the East and South East, both adjacent to London, who are the hard done by. On the few occasions I've visted the Up North everything looks a lot better than where I live, the food, housing, transport, petrol and beer are all cheaper. I guess we don't moan enough about how we get such a hard time. As they say it's the squeaky hinge that get the oil.

[Peckris]

We could go back to this

But sorry Dave, no border between England & Scotland (just a modern invention)

Ha! Don't know when that map was drawn? In Alfred's time, London was part of Mercia!

[Peckris]

Okay, so I know the map above is a flippant comment, but the more serious question has to be - are there any true borders?

Most of Africa, E.Europe & the Middle East have borders reflecting either past colonial land grabs or provisions of the Treaty of Versailles - neither of which paid any notice of the wishes of local populations, or respected ethnic, religious or cultural traditions.

New borders cause their own problems - look at the horrors of the relocation of populations between Greece & Turkey, or post independence India & Pakistan.

Most separatists dream of a return to their own perceived "Golden Age" - so post Yugoslav Serbia wanted a return to the borders prior the the battle of Kosovo Polje in 1389 (defeat by the Ottomans), I witnessed the aftermath personally in Kosova in 2001

So I'm an internationalist, BUT with a strong belief in subsidiarity. The UK is better in Europe in my view, but England does need urgent decentralisation with more decision making at regional level.

Hopefully Westminster will take note of the Scottish result, be interesting to see the parties' manifestos for next year's general election

David

The MPs will have completely forgotten about it all by the end of next week. As they say "seven days is a long time in politics".

Looking at that spending per head it's the East and South East, both adjacent to London, who are the hard done by. On the few occasions I've visted the Up North everything looks a lot better than where I live, the food, housing, transport, petrol and beer are all cheaper. I guess we don't moan enough about how we get such a hard time. As they say it's the squeaky hinge that get the oil.

Yes, but you forget that those 'per head' figures include how much is spent paying out unemployment benefit , council tax, housing benefit etc, plus the extra NHS costs involved in being poor as opposed to stinking rich with BUPA insurance etc etc. The lower SE figures prove my point - if you're raking it in, you don't need so much State help.

[davidrj]

Ha! Don't know when that map was drawn? In Alfred's time, London was part of Mercia!

My point exactly - it was the silliest example I could find on Google, most borders are artificial and reflect which thug running a protection racket king held sway at any particular time in history

[TomGoodheart]

Its a Nervy day all round. Should Cameron resign should the vote be a yes? Would there be a General election in The Rest of the UK?

Should Salmond resign if it's a No? Oh, hang on a second ...

[azda]

Its a Nervy day all round. Should Cameron resign should the vote be a yes? Would there be a General election in The Rest of the UK?

Should Salmond resign if it's a No? Oh, hang on a second ...

Personally i don't see the need for him to (and yes i've seen the news) its his Intention to step down shortly, but as has been written here a few posts previous, 7 days is a long time in politics Edited September 19, 2014 by azda

[scott]

that's what Politicians do when they fail

[azda]

Alex Salmond's full resignation statement:

"I am immensely proud of the campaign which Yes Scotland fought and of the 1.6 million voters who rallied to that cause by backing an independent Scotland.

"I am also proud of the 85 per cent turnout in the referendum and the remarkable response of all of the people of Scotland who participated in this great constitutional debate and the manner in which they conducted themselves.

"We now have the opportunity to hold Westminster's feet to the fire on the "vow" that they have made to devolve further meaningful power to Scotland. This places Scotland in a very strong position.

"I spoke to the Prime Minister today and, although he reiterated his intention to proceed as he has outlined, he would not commit to a second reading vote by March 27 on a Scotland Bill. That was a clear promise laid out by Gordon Brown during the campaign. The Prime Minister says such a vote would be meaningless. I suspect he cannot guarantee the support of his party.

"But today the point is this. The real guardians of progress are not the politicians at Westminster, or even at Holyrood, but the energised activism of tens of thousands of people who I predict will refuse meekly to go back into the political shadows.

"For me right now , therefore there is a decision as to who is best placed to lead this process forward politically.

"I believe that in this new exciting situation, redolent with possibility, Party, Parliament and country would benefit from new leadership.

"Therefore I have told the National Secretary of the SNP that I will not accept nomination to be a candidate for leader at the Annual Conference in Perth on November 13-15.

"After the membership ballot I will stand down as First Minister to allow the new leader to be elected by due Parliamentary process.

"Until then I will continue to serve as First Minister. After that I will continue to offer to serve as Member of the Scottish Parliament for Aberdeenshire East.

"It has been the privilege of my life to serve Scotland as First Minister. But as I said often during the referendum campaign this is not about me or the SNP. It is much more important than that.

"The position is this. We lost the referendum vote but can still carry the political initiative. More importantly Scotland can still emerge as the real winner."

[azda]

that's what Politicians do when they fail

Surely most of Westminster should be out of jobs then as they seem to be failing everyone on everything

[Peter]

Apparently toys have been seen raining down on Berwick on Tweed.

[Nick]

The attached graph shows the Child Poverty figures for 2010, which seem to be broadly representative of the regional public spending figures. I'm not sure that having just 15% of children in poverty in the South-East quite means that they are 'raking it in', but it does explain why the South-East region public expenditure is the least.

[scottishmoney]

Wow, there really are more than a mere few people in say Texas and Alaska and some other western USA states that wish they had the opportune moment to vote themselves out of Washington's hegemony. Scotland was afforded a unique opportunity - most nations only can achieve such an opportunity by taking up arms with much senseless death and destruction.

I do believe that 1.6 million discontented Scots canna be ignored though - they are not being currently represented - especially now that the First Minister has let his head roll when many were predicting that it would have been Cameron's head rolling this morn.

[azda]

1 million failed to vote yesterday, i would have expected much lower than that considering the prize

[Rob]

that's what Politicians do when they fail

Surely most of Westminster should be out of jobs then as they seem to be failing everyone on everything

A vote to devolve Westminster, Holyrood, Cardiff and Stormont from the UK might have had universal appeal.

[scottishmoney]

1 million failed to vote yesterday, i would have expected much lower than that considering the prize

If Alex Salmond was Viktor Yanukovych getting them to "vote" wouldn't have been a problem. In fact lots of dead people voted in the 2004 election. At least Scotland had a real election with very little if any tampering. I cannot ever expect that in Ukraine.

[azda]

Unforzunately i cannot agree on the vote rigging. I think it was the biggest stitch up of all time

[azda]

2nd page

[azda]

3rd and 4th pages

[azda]

And these are the scum who were rioting in Glasgow last night

[Rob]

Given the number of undecideds in the run up to the vote, I think that a No was the likely outcome. Anyone who is undecided is most likely to choose the status quo as that is a known situation. Better the devil you know etc.....

As for the suggestion of vote rigging, those allegations would come out from either side in the event of a close result. What is not said is that, if true, it displays a frightening lack of control by the Scottish bodies who would have been responsible for the organisation - presumably Holyrood or the local council, many of whom are SNP run.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Rob

[Peckris]

Good old Facebook - such a reliable source of 'news', eh?

[azda]

Good old Facebook - such a reliable source of 'news', eh?

Unlike the BBC bias Peck?

[Peckris]

Good old Facebook - such a reliable source of 'news', eh?

Unlike the BBC bias Peck?

The Beeb ain't perfect, not by a long chalk, but I'll believe them over some FB chancer any day of the week.

[azda]

Good old Facebook - such a reliable source of 'news', eh?

Unlike the BBC bias Peck?

The Beeb ain't perfect, not by a long chalk, but I'll believe them over some FB chancer any day of the week.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree