Alex Salmond

[azda]

Its dodgy

[DaveG38]

Its dodgy

I don't see the relevance, unless you are going to claim that the UK started the war in Syria and is secretly funding IS with the aim of scaring the Scots into voting to stay as part of the UK. Seems very far fetched to me - I don't buy the idea that everything that governments do has some hidden political agenda, aimed at whatever current problem there is. Sometimes it's just a matter of the government doing what it sensibly needs to as part of its overall job.

I worked with the specific security warning system as part of my job in the past, and there's nothing political about this system - it's always based on credible threats that are perceived by the Security Services. By and large those threats don't impinge on the general public, but make life more difficult for the staff and security officers at government buildings/installations, although I will concede that 7/7 did rather change that position.

[azda]

Sorry but there's always Hidden meanings, big Dave said "let the Scots decide" then sends in Alistair Darling as his champion. Then lets look at Afghanistan, who was it that paid the Taliban to fight the Russians in the 80s.?

Then there's Iraq and the smoking gun plot (twice) but the American Government had to create a plot for the 2nd invasion, amd if you actually think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK then you are dillusional. Governments always CREATE a plot in order to get their Dirty work done, the Arab spring bring's another to mind, its an endless list

[RLC35]

Sorry but there's always Hidden meanings, big Dave said "let the Scots decide" then sends in Alistair Darling as his champion. Then lets look at Afghanistan, who was it that paid the Taliban to fight the Russians in the 80s.?

Then there's Iraq and the smoking gun plot (twice) but the American Government had to create a plot for the 2nd invasion, amd if you actually think that Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK then you are dillusional. Governments always CREATE a plot in order to get their Dirty work done, the Arab spring bring's another to mind, its an endless list

You guys are really getting into some heavy stuff! When is does the voting take place for Scottish Independence? Ours is in November.

[Rob]

You guys are really getting into some heavy stuff! When is does the voting take place for Scottish Independence? Ours is in November.

You get a vote to leave the UK in November. I thought you had already done that?

[azda]

Its all in banter Bob. We all know that America don't want Scotland to leave the Union which in turn means we'll lose the vote by a Slim majority Have you by any chance read or heard of the book called "beware of the pale horse"? Written by a Former CIA Agent ?

just as a side thought, i'll be in Turkey next weekend for 2 weeks sunning my ripped (or rippled, however you look at it) Body and growing a beard in those 2 weeks i'll have missed 3 very important dates, 6th, 17th and 18th of September

Edited August 30, 2014 by azda

[RLC35]

You guys are really getting into some heavy stuff! When is does the voting take place for Scottish Independence? Ours is in November.

You get a vote to leave the UK in November. I thought you had already done that?

Rob, We left The UK in July...not November! LOL! Our General Election is in November. When does the Scotland vote take place?

[RLC35]

Its all in banter Bob. We all know that America don't want Scotland to leave the Union which in turn means we'll lose the vote by a Slim majority Have you by any chance read or heard of the book called "beware of the pale horse"? Written by a Former CIA Agent ?

just as a side thought, i'll be in Turkey next weekend for 2 weeks sunning my ripped (or rippled, however you look at it) Body and growing a beard in those 2 weeks i'll have missed 3 very important dates, 6th, 17th and 18th of September

Haven't heard of, or read the book. Though we do have some CIA agents!

[Rob]

You guys are really getting into some heavy stuff! When is does the voting take place for Scottish Independence? Ours is in November.

You get a vote to leave the UK in November. I thought you had already done that?

Rob, We left The UK in July...not November! LOL! Our General Election is in November. When does the Scotland vote take place?

September 18th.

Personally, I'm not too fussed which ever way it turns out. If Scotland decides to go it alone, then they will have to be treated as any other small foreign country. I think they are doing something for dogmatic rather than practical reasons. I take the view that the status quo is not worth changing unless you have a demonstrable improvement (say 10% or more) in profitability, living standards or whatever. The upheaval isn't worth a marginal increase, and if even that is in doubt then you should leave well alone.

On the plus side, an independent Scotland will be self-sufficient in food for certain as Salmond has a large enough chip on his shoulder to feed the world - that's if he can overcome his own ego.

[Gary D]

I love the way he thinks he can default on the scotch part of the national debt then think that the new country will be regarded as a good credit risk by the international credit sharks out there.

Salmon for tea ,more like sardines

I know you ladies will be interested to read that an Independent Scotland can use the pound, contrary to what all the scaremongers/liars in Westminster keep telling us all, thus we'll be paying our share of your debt http://www.thecourier.co.uk/opinion/columnists/jennifer-dempsie/battle-to-save-the-union-was-based-on-false-claim-1.546581

Another just half the story by the yes campain. Scotland can have any currency it likes, they adopt the US$ if they wanted to but would have no control. Look what happened to Greece and euro.

[azda]

Gary, look on page one of the thread. We have Scottish pounds, £10 etc

[Peckris]

The worst thing about a Yes vote is that it would leave England at the mercy of the fecking Tories, or even worse UKIP.

[Nick]

The worst thing about a Yes vote is that it would leave England at the mercy of the fecking Tories, or even worse UKIP.

One might think that would be true, but apparently it isn't. Here's some analysis I found:

The belief that Scottish independence would consign the rest of the UK to permanent Conservative government is one that inspires hope among Tories and despair among Labour. But both overestimate the influence of Scotland on general elections. On no occasion since 1945 would independence have changed the identity of the winning party and on only two occasions would it have converted a Labour majority into a hung parliament (1964 and October 1974). Without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1945 (with a majority of 143, down from 146), in 1966 (75, down from 98), in 1997 (137, down from 179), in 2001 (127, down from 166) and in 2005 (43, down from 66).

[Peckris]

Well, that's a crumb of comfort I suppose

[Rob]

The worst thing about a Yes vote is that it would leave England at the mercy of the fecking Tories, or even worse UKIP.

One might think that would be true, but apparently it isn't. Here's some analysis I found:

The belief that Scottish independence would consign the rest of the UK to permanent Conservative government is one that inspires hope among Tories and despair among Labour. But both overestimate the influence of Scotland on general elections. On no occasion since 1945 would independence have changed the identity of the winning party and on only two occasions would it have converted a Labour majority into a hung parliament (1964 and October 1974). Without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1945 (with a majority of 143, down from 146), in 1966 (75, down from 98), in 1997 (137, down from 179), in 2001 (127, down from 166) and in 2005 (43, down from 66).

I think the demise of Labour governments is just wishful thinking. I would expect the prospect of more Tory governments to squeeze the Lib-Dems, who are essentially left of centre anyway and merge their votes with Labour.

[Peckris]

The worst thing about a Yes vote is that it would leave England at the mercy of the fecking Tories, or even worse UKIP.

One might think that would be true, but apparently it isn't. Here's some analysis I found:

The belief that Scottish independence would consign the rest of the UK to permanent Conservative government is one that inspires hope among Tories and despair among Labour. But both overestimate the influence of Scotland on general elections. On no occasion since 1945 would independence have changed the identity of the winning party and on only two occasions would it have converted a Labour majority into a hung parliament (1964 and October 1974). Without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1945 (with a majority of 143, down from 146), in 1966 (75, down from 98), in 1997 (137, down from 179), in 2001 (127, down from 166) and in 2005 (43, down from 66).

I think the demise of Labour governments is just wishful thinking. I would expect the prospect of more Tory governments to squeeze the Lib-Dems, who are essentially left of centre anyway and merge their votes with Labour.

You mean the "demise of TORY governments" surely, Rob?

[Rob]

I think the centre ground of English politics, which accounts for the majority of non-affiliated voters, will by and large move to ensure that neither side has more than a short term monopoly on power. Blair was a reaction to Thatcherism, Cameron is a reaction to Brown's/Balls economic mismanagement. In an ideal world you would give politicians the position but no power as they are rarely capable of using it responsibly for the masses, preferring to pander to their own supporters.

[declanwmagee]

Its dodgy

I suspect the terror level thing was to get Carswell off the front pages.

[azda]

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9683-uk-responsible-for-all-of-the-debt-confirms-treasury-chief

[azda]

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/861-world-renowned-economist-says-scotland-subsidising-rest-of-uk

[scottishmoney]

I rather think all the commotion down in Westminster and the last minute offers of greater autonomy etc are a driving force behind the growth in the polls of the yes vote. It has been right interesting watching the whole dustup on the BBC.

[azda]

I rather think all the commotion down in Westminster and the last minute offers of greater autonomy etc are a driving force behind the growth in the polls of the yes vote. It has been right interesting watching the whole dustup on the BBC.

I Totallly agree with your comment, i think the undecided are now seeing Westminster for what they really are, patronising parasites. Ed Milliband says as soon as the NO vote is in place he'll make sure Scotland has more powers, again, another patronising comment, he seems sure that it will be a NO.

A friend of mine' daughter and her friends registered to vote through the College she's at and the Person who should have sent the enrolment to wherever did'nt do so in time and now they've lost their right to vote, i think more of this will be happening just shortly. I still think there will be some form of Dirty tricks and we won't get independence, but i'm getting nervous and excited now at the same time.

[Rob]

Given the future of the Union is going to be decided by less than 10% of the population and it is a possibility that the Scots will vote for independence, I am surprised by the lack of discussion around how the UK will be restructed in the aftermath of the vote. In the event of a Yes vote, if the parties in Westminster don't pursue policies solely in the interests of the remaining parts of the UK, this would represent an abrogation of responsibility and the people of this country will likely hand the reins of power to a party that does have our interests at heart, for which read UKIP. It is inconceivable (to me) that the government departments should have HMRC's and other departmental functions outsourced to a foreign workforce, given their importance to the country. HMRC Cumbernauld should be repatriated to areas of the country where there are more than enough unemployed English, Irish or Welsh residents. If the Scots want to go it alone, then they should do it without expecting the UK government to subsidise their economy by continuing the status quo when it comes to public services. A messy yes we are independent, no we are not, is in nobody's interest.

Scotland doesn't want Trident. OK, build a new base near Barrow to facilitate repairs. Reopen a shipyard on the Tyne or Wear to replace Rosyth, Both are feasible if you use Devonport as a stopgap measure.

Milliband's claim that we would have guards on the border is not fantasy. A Scotland outside the UK and by extension outside the EU should be treated just like any other foreign country in the same position, with full customs procedures put into place. Scotland can't just walk into the EU because the new member states have to fulfil certain conditions to be eligible for membership. An exception to the rules would not go down well.

A reduced UK would want to renogotiate it's relationship with the EU when it comes to contributions, as nobody could reasonably argue that this doesn't represent a material change in circumstances. That would probably mean the loss of the rebate, and that in turn would further bolster the prospects of UKIP.

We live in very interesting times.

[Gary1000]

I'm putting all my money into razor wire and security fencing. Will it mean that all of the die hard scots in England will have to become english citizens or move north of the boarder?

[Rob]

I'm putting all my money into razor wire and security fencing. Will it mean that all of the die hard scots in England will have to become english citizens or move north of the boarder?

Anyone with existing citizenship of the UK will presumably retain it. You can't just remove citizenship without due cause, such as being a terrorist etc, so grandfather rights would apply here. However, anyone trading in their passport for a Scottish one should not expect the same rights, though I suspect the same policy as that applies to Irish citizens would be the realistic position. Whether Scottish only passport holders would be allowed to serve with the UK's armed forces though is another matter.