St. James Auction 5/6 March

[Exbrit]

Anyone attend the St. James auction for the George Collection (5&6 March)? Wondering what the 1920 S Sovereign went for. I guess all of the losing bidders had plenty of money for the later lots.

[Rob]

Don't know, I was only interested in the afternoon sale. There were things I would have bought if good enough, but didn't cut the mustard.

[marvinfinnley]

Don't know, I was only interested in the afternoon sale. There were things I would have bought if good enough, but didn't cut the mustard.

Any standout or surprising prices realized in the afternoon auction?

[Rob]

The Henry 8 sovereign sold for 235K hammer against an estimate of 130-140. Several were unsold. Some estimates were too high though. I think most of the afternoon sale was MT's stock? Most had import duty attached for UK buyers.

Some of the lesser pieces were reasonable with the 1821 halfcrown slabbed MS65 going for not much above Spink unc all in. I picked up lot 50 for just over 900 all in which was quite acceptable. The silver penny sold for £5K hammer, and the two 1806s were over £2K hammer. Pattern Military guinea over £50K hammer. A not very good 5 guineas, over £20K. That was too much.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Rob

[mhcoins]

1920 s went for £430,000 . I agree that estimates where high but many of the lots started well below estimate.

[Nordle11]

Damn, I missed this yesterday and it's only banknotes today

[NRP]

Very mixed sale!!! Some high prices and quite a few pieces that were estimated too highly that didn't sell. I was the underbidder on the Cromwell broad and the William and Mary 5 guineas I was a few thousand out!!!

[mhcoins]

I had a go at the 1648 pontefract two shilling, but i was way out ! ended up selling for 46,000 + Comm (£59,800)

[marvinfinnley]

The Henry 8 sovereign sold for 235K hammer against an estimate of 130-140. Several were unsold. Some estimates were too high though. I think most of the afternoon sale was MT's stock? Most had import duty attached for UK buyers.

Some of the lesser pieces were reasonable with the 1821 halfcrown slabbed MS65 going for not much above Spink unc all in. I picked up lot 50 for just over 900 all in which was quite acceptable. The silver penny sold for £5K hammer, and the two 1806s were over £2K hammer. Pattern Military guinea over £50K hammer. A not very good 5 guineas, over £20K. That was too much.

What did you think about the results for lot 43 - Wyon's Incorrupta pattern? Did that sell? Seemed like the best I've seen, beautiful toning. I love Wyon's patterns. One of these days, maybe I can afford an UNA!

Edited March 9, 2014 by marvinfinnley

[Exbrit]

1920 s went for £430,000 . I agree that estimates where high but many of the lots started well below estimate.

The lowest bids allowed were 80% of the estimate which was probably the starting bid. I've been waiting fr them to post the realized prices - but they haven't yet.

[marvinfinnley]

I had a go at the 1648 pontefract two shilling, but i was way out ! ended up selling for 46,000 + Comm (£59,800)

Hammered in St. James I (2005) for 21,000. More than doubled in nine years. Rarity + <more robust economic outlook+ low interest rates> = 125% profit in nine years. Not a bad return for the seller. Also that the juice was less in 2005 with St.J then it is now (17.5% vs 20%). Part of that is St.J has no sellers comm. for lots > £1000.

[marvinfinnley]

Forgot to include buyer's comm. for the sale in 2005, so the profit is still around 85%, still not bad.

[Peckris]

The Henry 8 sovereign sold for 235K hammer against an estimate of 130-140. Several were unsold. Some estimates were too high though. I think most of the afternoon sale was MT's stock? Most had import duty attached for UK buyers.

Some of the lesser pieces were reasonable with the 1821 halfcrown slabbed MS65 going for not much above Spink unc all in. I picked up lot 50 for just over 900 all in which was quite acceptable. The silver penny sold for £5K hammer, and the two 1806s were over £2K hammer. Pattern Military guinea over £50K hammer. A not very good 5 guineas, over £20K. That was too much.

What did you think about the results for lot 43 - Wyon's Incorrupta pattern? Did that sell? Seemed like the best I've seen, beautiful toning. I love Wyon's patterns. One of these days, maybe I can afford an UNA!

I've always had this fantasy about being on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? and getting to the million dollar question .. which asks "What type of item did the Victorian design 'Una and the Lion' appear on?"

A. A toilet bowl

B. A gold coin

C. A tea service

D. A London tram

I'd look across at Tarrant and I'd say, "You know Chris - I know the answer to this one".

Well, I can dream, can't I?

[Accumulator]

The Henry 8 sovereign sold for 235K hammer against an estimate of 130-140. Several were unsold. Some estimates were too high though. I think most of the afternoon sale was MT's stock? Most had import duty attached for UK buyers.

Some of the lesser pieces were reasonable with the 1821 halfcrown slabbed MS65 going for not much above Spink unc all in. I picked up lot 50 for just over 900 all in which was quite acceptable. The silver penny sold for £5K hammer, and the two 1806s were over £2K hammer. Pattern Military guinea over £50K hammer. A not very good 5 guineas, over £20K. That was too much.

What did you think about the results for lot 43 - Wyon's Incorrupta pattern? Did that sell? Seemed like the best I've seen, beautiful toning. I love Wyon's patterns. One of these days, maybe I can afford an UNA!

I've always had this fantasy about being on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? and getting to the million dollar question .. which asks "What type of item did the Victorian design 'Una and the Lion' appear on?"

A. A toilet bowl

B. A gold coin

C. A tea service

D. A London tram

I'd look across at Tarrant and I'd say, "You know Chris - I know the answer to this one".

Well, I can dream, can't I?

I'll be your 'phone a friend', for half the winnings!

[Nicholas]

I had a go at the 1648 pontefract two shilling, but i was way out ! ended up selling for 46,000 + Comm (£59,800)

Question to MHCoin. What is the physical difference between the pontefract shilling and two shilling piece? They look exactly the same...

Nick

[Rob]

It is an opinion based on weight and nothing else. The 2/- is 9.85g, the shillings are normally 5g - ish.

[Nicholas]

Interesting. Ill measure my shilling. Thanks Rob. Is the planchet thicker or are the dimensions bigger?

[Rob]

Presumably thicker. I've never had it in the hand.

[VickySilver]

What did the gold 1924 sixpence go for?

[mhcoins]

It is a strange one, it's basically on a much larger flan with no mark of value. Apparently there are only 3 known. This one sold at St James, the brooker example (which was pierced and plugged) and another. Presumably like the unique gold Pontefract shilling (which I'm told has in the past few years sold privately for a huge six figure sum) the "two shillings" would have been struck as presentation pieces.

[Rob]

Not so sure about presentation pieces. Why would an emergency siege issue have presentation pieces? It is allegedly money of necessity, not an ego trip.

[mhcoins]

I have read that the gold piece was made as a gift for a important visiting royalist, I would therefore presume, given that so few two shilling pieces are known the same would apply.

[mhcoins]

Having just double checked Philip Nelsons book "The Obsidioal Money of the Great Rebebellion" it mentions about the Gold Unite ...

" This unique coin is struck from circular dies, upon an octagonal flan (Fig. 47). It weighs only 138-5 grains, although the full weight of the unite at this period was 14C5 grains. The recent history of this coin is that it was presented by Bath King-of-arms, F. H. Barnewall, to Sir Thomas G. Cullum, Bart., ancl was for a number of years on exhibition in the library of Trinity College, Cambridge. His grandson, Mr. G. Milner-Gibson-Cullum, exhibited it at the Stuart Exhibition of 1885, after which it passed into the collection of thelate Mr. Montagu. At the sale of his collection, it was purchased for the late Mr. Murdoch, from whose cabinet, at its dispersal, it came into the possession of Messrs. Spink."

[Rob]

I have read that the gold piece was made as a gift for a important visiting royalist, I would therefore presume, given that so few two shilling pieces are known the same would apply.

In that case the 2/- ought to pre-date the siege that started in the autumn, i.e June, July or August/early-Sept. It should be possible to confirm this by comparing punch wear for the letters given the same dies are involved. It would also imply the dies used are the first ones made at Pontefract. The question really is, who would be that important? Charles is locked up, Prince Charles is in France, Rupert and Maurice are in exile on the continent. There aren't a large number of important Royalists about. In the overall scheme of things, Langdale was one of Charles' most important commanders, running the show in the north of England.

[Nicholas]

I like to the think there just wasn't a lot of gold chains around pontefract to melt down for coinage at the time. Then any pontefract unites floating around after the siege would have been melted back down.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Nicholas