Let's See Your Copper Coins, Tokens, Or Medals!

[JLS]

22 minutes ago, will1976 said:

A couple of my unofficial farthings, having an issue with sizing as only got my phone for pics at the moment. The rather worn example is W4640, listed as RRR with no picture while the other is a more pristine example of W4959b

The W4640 is great - nice to see it for the first time ! Do you have examples of any of the other ones the Withers couldn't find ? I don't own any "RRR" pieces yet, although I have a few "RR" tokens. 

[will1976]

Top W2680, this is one of my favourites. Simple design but tells you all you need to know. Bottom W2190. Only listed as R but this is the only example I've ever seen

[will1976]

5 minutes ago, JLS said:

Do you have examples of any of the other ones the Withers couldn't find ? 

I do have a couple, will find them out and add some pics later

[will1976]

19 hours ago, JLS said:

Do you have examples of any of the other ones the Withers couldn't find ? 

An example of W5062 Thomson hatters. I have two or three others where withers don't have a picture 

[JLS]

5 hours ago, will1976 said:

An example of W5062 Thomson hatters. I have two or three others where withers don't have a picture 

Lovely condition too ! Have you sent these photos on to Paul Withers ? 

[will1976]

On 8/15/2019 at 10:08 PM, JLS said:

Have you sent these photos on to Paul Withers ? 

I have sent a picture of this one and one other to them but in their reply they said there was no plans at present to issue a revised catalogue 

[Gaz T]

Hi all.

Picked this in an antique shop for £45 but not so sure its a genuine medal or reproduction.

The description label that came with it says Medal in vermeil, i believe this is silver-gilt.

The medal is stamped Bronze with a little f above on the side of the medal, I cant imagine this being period.

Its also had a loop fitted at some point which is gold, maybe the best thing going for it.

The weight and size of the medal are correct to the description that came with it.

Sold by house Platt, i have no idea what this could be. any ideas much appreciated.

Genuine or not for the money i can live with it.

 

 

 

[Sword]

I don't collect medals or know anything about them. But if it say "bronze" on the edge, then surely the description must be wrong in calling it "vermeil" which does indeed mean silver gilt. 

[Gaz T]

Yep someone got it wrong!  I would say its more like gilt bronze.

 

[Sword]

There are silver and vermeil versions on sale on the web. I think your description is a direct translation of the vermeil medal's French description. The "House of Platt" is Maison Platt which is a coin & medal shop. https://www.maisonplatt.com/default.asp?langue=en

This is the medal for sale:

http://www.123numismatique.com/documents/monnaies/fiche.php?categorie=medailles&id=243

 

Your bronze version has a somewhat cruder design in my view. (The lace loop at the bottom of the queen's portrait is missing). The font is different. The vermeil medal has wavy bottoms serifs to the letters. The edge of the bronze medal and the beading look a lot more modern to me. So I imagine yours is a reproduction or restrike. The word bronze was stamped on the edge presumably so that people cannot confuse it with the vermeil version. 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Sword

[Paddy]

When I read the ticket with the bronze version posted by @Gaz T I interpret the final "1959" as the date of production of this copy. Certainly looks more like 1959 style than 1565 to me. Even the @Sword looks more 18th or 19th century than 16th.

[Sword]

There is a specimen in the British Museum and this is from its website. "These medals were to serve as presents for the followers of the Duke of Alva at his meeting with Charles IX and Catherine at Bayonne in June". I guess the quality of medals in the 16th century can be surprising high. 

https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?assetId=1613269679&objectId=943268&partId=1

I do wonder if the gold plating on that "vermeil" medal is official or if it was done in a later date. 

 

 

 

 

[Gaz T]

Thanks Sword and Paddy for the comments.

I have had a trawl through the net for any info on the medal.

I believe that the stamp on the side of the medal has the Cornucopia (horn of plenty) before the word BRONZE.

This was used by the French mint, So I believe it is an official French restrike of the original. I'm not quite sure about the F stamp but maybe that's just for France.

The Cornucopia was used from Jan 1st 1880 - 1898,  1901.

And in the 1960s the Cornucopia was used with the year stamped.

So looking at the clasp attached and the amount of crud under it I'm going to stick my neck out and put it as late Victorian - Edwardian.

Thanks again chaps.

[bagerap]

It should be pointed out that Monnaie de Paris have retained the dies for probably every coin and medal they have ever issued. restrikes are common and if you have deep enough pockets, old medals can be struck to order.

[JLS]

A new addition to my unofficial farthing collection, the "T.B." farthing of Bolton, Lancashire, minted by Taylor and Galloway in Bolton, probably for Thomas Bridson, dyer and bleacher. W1100 - listed as "RRR". This specimen ex-Brian Dawson

I know of the definite existence of two other examples - the Withers plate coin, and another sold in DNW's British Tokens sale in December 2015 (Lot 446) - if anyone here has one, or knows of others,  please do let me know !

[JLS]

Also found this great countermark on an 1862 bun penny - probably going to be a research piece for a while unless I can find an example where it's struck properly. 

 

 

[will1976]

1 hour ago, JLS said:

if anyone here has one, or knows of others,  please do let me know !

I've not got an example of this one yet and not seen any. A nice token, well done

[JLS]

More recently collected unofficial farthings: here are two which are not photographed in Withers ! 

W4640 - the Central Boot and Shoe Steam Factory. Listed by Batty so pre-1865.

I've wanted this ever since I saw Will1976's piece (photographed above in this thread) and luckily one turned up last week. 

And W4097, the rarer W Ingman token of Nottingham. Listed in Chamberlain, "Nottinghamshire Advertising Tickets, 1989" - would be very interested to see a scan of the plate piece if anyone has a copy.

[will1976]

1 hour ago, JLS said:

I've wanted this ever since I saw Will1976's piece

A very nice example, much better than mine. Well done. I've put my 'unofficials' on the back burner at the moment choosing to concentrate on the 18th century ½ pennies, particularly the Kempson tokens

[JLS]

32 minutes ago, will1976 said:

A very nice example, much better than mine. Well done. I've put my 'unofficials' on the back burner at the moment choosing to concentrate on the 18th century ½ pennies, particularly the Kempson tokens

Good luck with the Kempson tokens - beautiful things. I have a few from the London churches series knocking about somewhere. 

The unofficial farthings is probably the most actively growing bit of my collection right now...I just love being able to buy rarities in the series for £15 or £100, not normally a possibility in most other areas of collecting right now for better or worse. Although I'm also doing a date/mintmark set of the French revolutionary copper coinage and have had some good junk bin finds. 

 

[will1976]

18 minutes ago, JLS said:

The unofficial farthings is probably the most actively growing bit of my collection right now

When I have five minutes next week I'll PM you a couple of pictures of duplicates I have which might be of interest to you 

[JLS]

1 hour ago, will1976 said:

When I have five minutes next week I'll PM you a couple of pictures of duplicates I have which might be of interest to you 

Please do - still looking for acceptable examples of plenty of common tokens ! Let alone the RR and RRR pieces....

[Paulus]

Newbie 

[will1976]

New addition from the DNW auction of the 3rd.....one from a group of eight

[Paulus]

Aha so that was you eh ... the 4 groups of Kempsons Birmingham  Buildings all contained tokens I wanted, but all went higher than I was prepared to pay