Geroge IIII 1821 Crown purchase, what do you think?

[evansuk2000]

Recently bought this crown, one of my favourites, what would you grade this at? I was thinking mayve Fine to Very Fine? ALso did I pay too much? Thanks!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGE-III-SILVER-CROWN-COIN-DATED-1821-SECUNDO-/370804458333?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[evansuk2000]

Recently bought this crown, one of my favourites, what would you grade this at? I was thinking mayve Fine to Very Fine? ALso did I pay too much? Thanks!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGE-III-SILVER-CROWN-COIN-DATED-1821-SECUNDO-/370804458333?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Edited May 6, 2013 by evansuk2000

[azda]

Recently bought this crown, one of my favourites, what would you grade this at? I was thinking mayve Fine to Very Fine? ALso did I pay too much? Thanks!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGE-III-SILVER-CROWN-COIN-DATED-1821-SECUNDO-/370804458333?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

You only pay to much when a coin is shill bidded upon. Normally by those who make their listings private. Grade, i'd say VF or there abiuts

[evansuk2000]

Recently bought this crown, one of my favourites, what would you grade this at? I was thinking mayve Fine to Very Fine? ALso did I pay too much? Thanks!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGE-III-SILVER-CROWN-COIN-DATED-1821-SECUNDO-/370804458333?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

You only pay to much when a coin is shill bidded upon. Normally by those who make their listings private. Grade, i'd say VF or there abiuts

What's shill bidding? Ahh VF would be about the rightish price then, cheers mate

[azda]

Recently bought this crown, one of my favourites, what would you grade this at? I was thinking mayve Fine to Very Fine? ALso did I pay too much? Thanks!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEORGE-III-SILVER-CROWN-COIN-DATED-1821-SECUNDO-/370804458333?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

You only pay to much when a coin is shill bidded upon. Normally by those who make their listings private. Grade, i'd say VF or there abiuts

What's shill bidding? Ahh VF would be about the rightish price then, cheers mate

Shill bidding is when the seller has another identity and uses it to push the price of their coin

Edited May 6, 2013 by azda

[Paulus]

I agree with Azda's (Dave's) grading of about very fine, certainly a very bold fine, so if you paid that sort of money then you did okay. If you are anything like me, and keep the collecting bug, you will soon want an example without so much wear - especially as it is one of your favourites!

Shill bidding (I am not sure where the term comes from) is a problem on on-line auction sites like eBay. EBay themselves have a guide:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/how-to-spot-shill-bidding-on-ebay/10000000004031741/g.html

If you know how to spot it, and/or are strict about the most you will pay based only on the description and photos/scans, you should not end up paying more than you should. But it can be easy as a beginner to think that what others are apparently prepared to pay is an indication of a coin's value, so learning how to grade and which sellers and dealers to trust would be sound advice - there is plenty of invaluable advice on previous posts on this excellent Forum.

Enjoy the hobby, George IIII silver is one of my favourite series too!

[Peckris]

If it really had been a "Geroge" crown, it would be very valuable! I wouldn't quite rate it at VF, between F and VF I'd say (that particular issue wears very well) but you didn't overpay considering recent prices.

[evansuk2000]

If it really had been a "Geroge" crown, it would be very valuable! I wouldn't quite rate it at VF, between F and VF I'd say (that particular issue wears very well) but you didn't overpay considering recent prices.

Haha just noticed the mistake, thanks Also I bought a Cartwheel Twopence from the same seller...what do you think this would be graded at?

[Rob]

If it really had been a "Geroge" crown, it would be very valuable! I wouldn't quite rate it at VF, between F and VF I'd say (that particular issue wears very well) but you didn't overpay considering recent prices.

Haha just noticed the mistake, thanks Also I bought a Cartwheel Twopence from the same seller...what do you think this would be graded at?

VF or a bit better. Say gVF where the g stands for green. There's quite a lot of verdigris which you could do without.

[evansuk2000]

If it really had been a "Geroge" crown, it would be very valuable! I wouldn't quite rate it at VF, between F and VF I'd say (that particular issue wears very well) but you didn't overpay considering recent prices.

Haha just noticed the mistake, thanks Also I bought a Cartwheel Twopence from the same seller...what do you think this would be graded at?

VF or a bit better. Say gVF where the g stands for green. There's quite a lot of verdigris which you could do without.

Thanks

Got that one for £48, which I think was quite good, decent edges also. Would you go for F - VF for the crown also?

Edited May 7, 2013 by evansuk2000

[azda]

A cartwheel is round and therefor would'nt have an edge, i think you might be refering to the rims though. As Rob pointed out, it does has a lot of verdigris on the REV which kills copper/brinze and could eventually bore a hole in the coin if not treated. This does'nt add to its value. Coins with a lot of verdigris should be avoided

[evansuk2000]

A cartwheel is round and therefor would'nt have an edge, i think you might be refering to the rims though. As Rob pointed out, it does has a lot of verdigris on the REV which kills copper/brinze and could eventually bore a hole in the coin if not treated. This does'nt add to its value. Coins with a lot of verdigris should be avoided

Any tips on how to get rid of verdigris? Also does the crown look fine to you, as in not showing any signs of cleaning etc? (I worry too much) thanks for all the advice people

[Coinery]

A cartwheel is round and therefor would'nt have an edge, i think you might be refering to the rims though. As Rob pointed out, it does has a lot of verdigris on the REV which kills copper/brinze and could eventually bore a hole in the coin if not treated. This does'nt add to its value. Coins with a lot of verdigris should be avoided

Any tips on how to get rid of verdigris? Also does the crown look fine to you, as in not showing any signs of cleaning etc? (I worry too much) thanks for all the advice people

My apologies as always, but I'm viewing your coin on the iPhone!

I think it's a good example of the grade, and you may be able to tease away some of that verd with a cocktail stick (with spike stubbed) and some olive oil as a lube?

The only other DIY approach would be sticking the whole thing in vinegar and work away at the green every 5-10-20 or so mins until you're satisfied it's either removed, or you begin to notice the general appearance of the entire coin is suffering, stop with whichever comes first! Whatever you do, don't add salt to the vinegar!

I personally wouldn't recommend the vinegar approach for this coin, I'd go with the first option.

What you can't remove, I'd keep stippled with a little olive oil for the next few years (not saturated, just a light wipe, and keep an eye on things), you might get it all eventually, leaving maybe a pit or two, depending on how advanced it is? You may be REALLY lucky! Good luck!

Edited May 8, 2013 by Coinery

[Peter]

Quick tip.

DO NOT BUY GREEN COPPER.

[Red Riley]

My apologies as always, but I'm viewing your coin on the iPhone!

I think it's a good example of the grade, and you may be able to tease away some of that verd with a cocktail stick (with spike stubbed) and some olive oil as a lube?

The only other DIY approach would be sticking the whole thing in vinegar and work away at the green every 5-10-20 or so mins until you're satisfied it's either removed, or you begin to notice the general appearance of the entire coin is suffering, stop with whichever comes first! Whatever you do, don't add salt to the vinegar!

I personally wouldn't recommend the vinegar approach for this coin, I'd go with the first option.

What you can't remove, I'd keep stippled with a little olive oil for the next few years (not saturated, just a light wipe, and keep an eye on things), you might get it all eventually, leaving maybe a pit or two, depending on how advanced it is? You may be REALLY lucky! Good luck!

May not actually be what we understand as verdigris which usually seems to occur in small spots and eats away at the metal. Greenish deposits like this are not unusual on copper (many Roman bronzes are all green but quite stable), so proceed as Stuart suggests with the cocktail stick but I wouldn't go any further. The reason I say this is that agents, even something as seemingly innocuous as olive oil can affect the patina, and this seems quite good in that department. Just keep an eye on the green stuff to make sure it doesn't get any worse.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Red Riley

[Peckris]

A cartwheel is round and therefor would'nt have an edge, i think you might be refering to the rims though. As Rob pointed out, it does has a lot of verdigris on the REV which kills copper/brinze and could eventually bore a hole in the coin if not treated. This does'nt add to its value. Coins with a lot of verdigris should be avoided

So no coin can have an "edge knock" then?