UNC 1905 Half Crown

[Paulus]

Got a catalog through the door from Colin Cooke today, they are selling a very high grade 1905 HC for, wait for it, £5,500!!!! I know that's what the price guides would indicate, but wow, guess I had never seen one for sale before!

[Nick]

Got a catalog through the door from Colin Cooke today, they are selling a very high grade 1905 HC for, wait for it, £5,500!!!! I know that's what the price guides would indicate, but wow, guess I had never seen one for sale before!

I would have expected more than that, £5.5k is just over Spink EF price. A genuinely uncirculated 1905 halfcrown being auctioned at a top London auction house would easily hit £10k or more.

[1949threepence]

Got a catalog through the door from Colin Cooke today, they are selling a very high grade 1905 HC for, wait for it, £5,500!!!! I know that's what the price guides would indicate, but wow, guess I had never seen one for sale before!

Just seen it in my catalogue. Absolutely stunning.

Unfortunately, Neil doesn't put the new stock on his website for a few days, so we'll have to wait a few days to see a really good pic of it.

edit: that's if it's not already sold by then !!!

Edited February 4, 2013 by 1949threepence

[Peckris]

Got a catalog through the door from Colin Cooke today, they are selling a very high grade 1905 HC for, wait for it, £5,500!!!! I know that's what the price guides would indicate, but wow, guess I had never seen one for sale before!

I would have expected more than that, £5.5k is just over Spink EF price. A genuinely uncirculated 1905 halfcrown being auctioned at a top London auction house would easily hit £10k or more.

Like the 1934 crown, it's overvalued IMO - it basks in the light emanating from its own hype, as the rarest of a rare group. If you go back a few decades, when its rarity was actually GREATER in relation to commoner E7 halfcrown dates, you will find its value was not the same multiple over them.

[azda]

I know a man who Runs a coin Forum who sold an UNC 1905 for 10k, so i'd reckon that CCs is probably less than UNC at a guess

[Paulus]

I know a man who Runs a coin Forum who sold an UNC 1905 for 10k, so i'd reckon that CCs is probably less than UNC at a guess

Yes, my mistake Dave, it is advertised at EF+/GEF

[Peter]

I am lolling here with 2 broken ribs but I've recieved CC latest catalogue and am tempted.Trouble is 5.5k can't be hidden from Mrs Peter. The new bloody kitten with its cat carrier box is my damage plus it has ripped off most of my wallpaper in the landing and hall....plus he has found away of getting in the fridge...Bloody Darwin.

[VickySilver]

I think I would take exception to the 1905 half crown NOT being rare in Unc. This coin is in fact prohibitively rare, but the change in relative values to other E7 2/6 IMO is more a function of demand flux in the 21st Century. Condition and rarity absolutely are the major driving forces to big prices, and this coin would fit the bill (theoretical as CC's is a bit less). I have seen one in PCGS63 that was slabbed some 6 or 8 years ago and definately fit the bill and would hit the 10k mark. Perhaps one other, and Rob would correct my memory but I believe that Colin Adams even had difficulty with these dates ('03 & '05)...

What would be the value for the less loved, but still admired 1903 2/6 in a like state? 7k?

Also IMO the two half crowns may have decent potential for further gain yet in value as they are quite rare...

[argentumandcoins]

I think I would take exception to the 1905 half crown NOT being rare in Unc. This coin is in fact prohibitively rare, but the change in relative values to other E7 2/6 IMO is more a function of demand flux in the 21st Century. Condition and rarity absolutely are the major driving forces to big prices, and this coin would fit the bill (theoretical as CC's is a bit less). I have seen one in PCGS63 that was slabbed some 6 or 8 years ago and definately fit the bill and would hit the 10k mark. Perhaps one other, and Rob would correct my memory but I believe that Colin Adams even had difficulty with these dates ('03 & '05)...

What would be the value for the less loved, but still admired 1903 2/6 in a like state? 7k?

Also IMO the two half crowns may have decent potential for further gain yet in value as they are quite rare...

Colin could only manage a GEF in 1903 and a 1905 that was as struck apart from a couple of reverse digs, so obviously if true UNC coins were outwith his reach they must be extremely difficult to source.

I suspect they will be even harder to acquire now as it seems that 1905 has acquired grading all of it's own. Poor has become NF, Fair has become Fine, Fine is NVF now etc etc. I suppose if you have an UNC it will now grade as Gem Prooflike FDC perfect mint state or perhaps CGS would just give it a 100 score?

[Colin88]

If thats a genuine 1905 and a genuine UNC then its genuinely a good buy...

[Nicholas]

If you acquire the rarest year for a particular coin, 1905 hcrown, 1934 crown, 1860 hpenny, etc, and in unc, then no matter what price is paid for other years, it will push the rarest year above that price and hence the reason why the price is unevenly high for the rarest years.

[Nicholas]

My question though is why is the 1905 so rare. Mintage figures from coincraft shows 168,005 were struck. Were most melted down? I mean compare with 932 1934 wreath crowns....

[Nicholas]

Sorry, 166, 008.

[Nick]

My question though is why is the 1905 so rare. Mintage figures from coincraft shows 168,005 were struck. Were most melted down? I mean compare with 932 1934 wreath crowns....

The wreath crowns were minted for collectors, so most won't have circulated. The half-crowns were minted for circulation, so most will have. Also, you cannot tell from the mintage numbers whether the coins minted in 1905 actually bore that date.

[Nicholas]

BTW, and contrary to this topic, I was once told that there were only 6-10 1860 halfpennies known in private hands. If this is true and it was a US or australian coin, the price would be astronomical. Why Is the GB market different?

[VickySilver]

That would be the copper large modulus halfpenny.

US market = HUGE, and therefore demand higher for such rarities. A US coin of equal rarity even in an unpopular series would have to go 1+million USD.

Australia = "managed demand increase" . A more complicated situation but note there are mechanisms whereby a numismatic issue can be purchased

with retirement funds. Now there is no doubt more to it than just that but that is just a portion of it.

I can see the '05 2/6 going for 15-20 k or even higher before so very long with the '03 not far behind at maybe 70%.

Edited February 5, 2013 by VickySilver

[Colin88]

Re the 1860 Halfpenny.....very simply, in 1860 a radically new style and type of Penny/Halfpenny and Farthing were issued for circulation....these were now made in 'bronze' and were far smaller,lighter than the Pennies/Halfpennies and farthings that had previously circulated until then, which had been much larger, heavier and had been made of copper.....a couple of shillings worth in your trousers and you would have walked with a limp.

Only a handful of the older style copper pennies/halfpennies and farthings were dated 1860....and they were in fact coins dated 1859 that had had their dies recut to 1860...it's these that are extremely rare and to which you were refering to.

They are also known in gold...I have an 1860 farthing in gold.

[Colin88]

Personaly 1905 halfcrowns make me nervous.....those 40 or so high grade fakes (made in the late 70's I believe) are still doing the rounds.....they are absolutely amazing copies....one of the very few ways to tell is that the "i" on "QVI" of the Honi Soit Qvi Mal Y Pense" is not struck up properly and very very slightly 'wobbly' at the top ....that why I've stuck to a 1903 in Unc and left high grade 05's well alone.

[Nicholas]

Ill take the gold farthing please! Sounds eye watering! Is it listed in peck?

[VickySilver]

Yes, I think a good point about the counterfeits of the '05s.

Is your gold farthing of the old larger copper modulus?

[Colin88]

Love that word 'modulus' dont you?

The 1860 Farthing is a gold Lauer Pattern....ex Plymouth Auction Rooms of "English Pattern Gold Coins" 18/4/2008....ex Murdoch Lot 538 ....Standard Catlalogue of World Gold Coins by Krause & Micheler Number PPN 49.

Next time I get them out .....oooer missus....I'll attach a photo...its a beauty.

[VickySilver]

Yes, guilty - it seems people just get confused so feed them the redundancy..I've been meaning to get the halfpenny but just don't get excited for what is an 8-10k pound proposition for the coin. Even though more common I really like the full penny size and think the best specimens have a long way to go upward at "only" 6k pounds for a superior specimen such as the one just sold or the Colin Adams specimen.

I sold away a superior 1903 halfcrown about 4-5 years ago to get one of the 1860 farthings (plus about 16 other silver bits)...

[Peckris]

I think I would take exception to the 1905 half crown NOT being rare in Unc. This coin is in fact prohibitively rare, but the change in relative values to other E7 2/6 IMO is more a function of demand flux in the 21st Century. Condition and rarity absolutely are the major driving forces to big prices, and this coin would fit the bill (theoretical as CC's is a bit less). I have seen one in PCGS63 that was slabbed some 6 or 8 years ago and definately fit the bill and would hit the 10k mark. Perhaps one other, and Rob would correct my memory but I believe that Colin Adams even had difficulty with these dates ('03 & '05)...

What would be the value for the less loved, but still admired 1903 2/6 in a like state? 7k?

Also IMO the two half crowns may have decent potential for further gain yet in value as they are quite rare...

I think that's what I said! Except that "a function of demand flux" is just a posh way of saying "believing the hype". ALL Ed7 halfcrowns are difficult in UNC apart from 1902. No-one is going to tell me that the '05 is THAT much harder than the '03 in UNC or that both are THAT much harder than - say - the '08 or '09.

If you acquire the rarest year for a particular coin, 1905 hcrown, 1934 crown, 1860 hpenny, etc, and in unc, then no matter what price is paid for other years, it will push the rarest year above that price and hence the reason why the price is unevenly high for the rarest years.

Again, that was my point.

Personaly 1905 halfcrowns make me nervous.....those 40 or so high grade fakes (made in the late 70's I believe) are still doing the rounds.....they are absolutely amazing copies....one of the very few ways to tell is that the "i" on "QVI" of the Honi Soit Qvi Mal Y Pense" is not struck up properly and very very slightly 'wobbly' at the top ....that why I've stuck to a 1903 in Unc and left high grade 05's well alone.

I think that was a very sensible strategy.

[Colin88]

A few years back I bought the 1860 Copper penny (60/59) from a dealer.

When it arived inside the jiffy bag it was tightly wrapped in bubble wrap and cellotape....after a while I lost patience with it trying to get it out and used a large pair of scissors to force through the bubble wrap and cellotape......well it went through alright and through the platic envelope and made a large scratch on the obverse of the coin...thus taking a huge junk off the value......I sold it recently and many other rare and high grade pennies that I'd fallen out of love with ....for the second time in 30 years..I may start again...!

[Colin88]

1905 Shillings are also subject to forgery but they are many times more obvious than the halfcrown...more often than not its a case case of a clumsy recut "5" ...then all you have to do is look at the "E" of "DEF" on the obverse and you'll see it's the normal 1902 type obverse.

There is a seller on eBay who has sold quite a few of these even recently..(and I even worked out where he bought them from)..unfortunately you cant contact the poor buyers any more and warn them.

I gave both of these people the benefit of the doubt..because I'm a Christian (you can still say that, cant you??)..eBay have been informed...I've informed them....but on a scale on 0-10, guess how much notice they took? ....but the good news is, eBay got their fees....