I would value members' grading opinions

[Peckris]

I will now attempt to return this thread to sanity, which is rich coming from me. OK it's at least EF, whether it goes any higher is very difficult to assess on screen. Inspect the king's upper ear and the lions' faces on the reverse. Do they show any sign of flatness? If so, you have fallen to GEF, a little more and it's EF. High grade coins really need inspecting in the hand.

Always remembering that die wear and coin wear can be hard to separate especially for beginners. Small things like the lion faces are often the first places to show wear on both the die and the coin. If the reverse has full lustre and displays no rubbing or wear anywhere else, but the lions' faces are flat without losing lustre - then it's die wear and can be graded Unc (if the die wear is obvious to the naked eye and affects much more than tiny lion faces, then you would mention it in the grading - UNC Weak strike)

Thanks Red, they are very valuable observations and underlines to me that it is a real lottery buying high grade coins on-line as you can't see them in the hand ... my ignorance is also embarrassing, I thought GEF was better than EF! What is in between EF and aUNC then, EF+ or something? GUNC?? Sorry, still a novice, I will buy the book!

You've misunderstood - GEF is better than EF. Derek was working downwards - i.e. if there's a little wear it's GEF, more and it's EF. But yes, buy the book!

[Nick]

I will now attempt to return this thread to sanity, which is rich coming from me. OK it's at least EF, whether it goes any higher is very difficult to assess on screen. Inspect the king's upper ear and the lions' faces on the reverse. Do they show any sign of flatness? If so, you have fallen to GEF, a little more and it's EF. High grade coins really need inspecting in the hand.

Always remembering that die wear and coin wear can be hard to separate especially for beginners. Small things like the lion faces are often the first places to show wear on both the die and the coin. If the reverse has full lustre and displays no rubbing or wear anywhere else, but the lions' faces are flat without losing lustre - then it's die wear and can be graded Unc (if the die wear is obvious to the naked eye and affects much more than tiny lion faces, then you would mention it in the grading - UNC Weak strike)

Thanks Red, they are very valuable observations and underlines to me that it is a real lottery buying high grade coins on-line as you can't see them in the hand ... my ignorance is also embarrassing, I thought GEF was better than EF! What is in between EF and aUNC then, EF+ or something? GUNC?? Sorry, still a novice, I will buy the book!

You've misunderstood - GEF is better than EF. Derek was working downwards - i.e. if there's a little wear it's GEF, more and it's EF. But yes, buy the book!

Are you saying that any amount of weakness does not affect the grade? For example, what grade would you give for this 1921 halfcrown which has very little wear but is very weakly struck.

[Colin G.]

Are you saying that any amount of weakness does not affect the grade? For example, what grade would you give for this 1921 halfcrown which has very little wear but is very weakly struck.

I would agree that weak strike should not affect the technical grade, but be aware of people trying to explain away wear with the justification fo a weak strike.....however having said that, a weak strike will usually affect the price, because it always more favourable to have a well struck example

[Red Riley]

I would agree that weak strike should not affect the technical grade, but be aware of people trying to explain away wear with the justification fo a weak strike.....however having said that, a weak strike will usually affect the price, because it always more favourable to have a well struck example

Unless of course all (or virtually all) the coins of a particular denomination struck in a particular year are weak (1920 pennies spring to mind).

[Peckris]

Are you saying that any amount of weakness does not affect the grade? For example, what grade would you give for this 1921 halfcrown which has very little wear but is very weakly struck.

It all depends how you grade. Some people downgrade weak strikes, but I would find that confusing - better IMO to mention the weakness in the grade, e.g. UNC weak strike on shield

I would agree that weak strike should not affect the technical grade, but be aware of people trying to explain away wear with the justification fo a weak strike.....however having said that, a weak strike will usually affect the price, because it always more favourable to have a well struck example

Unless of course all (or virtually all) the coins of a particular denomination struck in a particular year are weak (1920 pennies spring to mind).

Agreed, to both. Weak strikes will command lower prices, just as early strikes attract a premium. Unless ALL or MOST such coins are weak (in addition to 1920 pennies, there are the reverses of 1907 pennies, the obverses of 1919H pennies, the reverses of 1917 sixpences, the reverses of 1895YH farthings, etc etc).

[josie]

Are you saying that any amount of weakness does not affect the grade? For example, what grade would you give for this 1921 halfcrown which has very little wear but is very weakly struck.

It all depends how you grade. Some people downgrade weak strikes, but I would find that confusing - better IMO to mention the weakness in the grade, e.g. UNC weak strike on shield

I would agree that weak strike should not affect the technical grade, but be aware of people trying to explain away wear with the justification fo a weak strike.....however having said that, a weak strike will usually affect the price, because it always more favourable to have a well struck example

Unless of course all (or virtually all) the coins of a particular denomination struck in a particular year are weak (1920 pennies spring to mind).

Agreed, to both. Weak strikes will command lower prices, just as early strikes attract a premium. Unless ALL or MOST such coins are weak (in addition to 1920 pennies, there are the reverses of 1907 pennies, the obverses of 1919H pennies, the reverses of 1917 sixpences, the reverses of 1895YH farthings, etc etc).

Just a comment

Expert in grading.

Predecimal Grading and co.

Settling others opinion???

[Paulus]

Thanks Red, they are very valuable observations and underlines to me that it is a real lottery buying high grade coins on-line as you can't see them in the hand ... my ignorance is also embarrassing, I thought GEF was better than EF! What is in between EF and aUNC then, EF+ or something? GUNC?? Sorry, still a novice, I will buy the book!

There is no officially laid down grading nomenclature but most people go with (in ascending order);

Poor

Fair

F

GF

NVF

VF

GVF

NEF

EF

GEF

AU

Unc.

'+' and '?' are often thrown in just to indicate that it is (in the grader's opinion) better than or not quite as good as the stated grade. You will also come across 'Good' and 'Very Good' which are only semi-official in the UK although the norm in America and an attrocious mis-use of the English language actually being less than 'fine'! However, don't let me put you off from buying the book...

Thanks again, and BU being the very top grade?

Two more coins for members' grading opinions (if people don't mind?)

[Paulus]

Thanks Red, they are very valuable observations and underlines to me that it is a real lottery buying high grade coins on-line as you can't see them in the hand ... my ignorance is also embarrassing, I thought GEF was better than EF! What is in between EF and aUNC then, EF+ or something? GUNC?? Sorry, still a novice, I will buy the book!

There is no officially laid down grading nomenclature but most people go with (in ascending order);

Poor

Fair

F

GF

NVF

VF

GVF

NEF

EF

GEF

AU

Unc.

'+' and '?' are often thrown in just to indicate that it is (in the grader's opinion) better than or not quite as good as the stated grade. You will also come across 'Good' and 'Very Good' which are only semi-official in the UK although the norm in America and an attrocious mis-use of the English language actually being less than 'fine'! However, don't let me put you off from buying the book...

Thanks again, and BU being the very top grade?

Two more coins for members' grading opinions (if people don't mind?)

It wouldn't let me post any more pictures ...

[Nick]

Thanks Red, they are very valuable observations and underlines to me that it is a real lottery buying high grade coins on-line as you can't see them in the hand ... my ignorance is also embarrassing, I thought GEF was better than EF! What is in between EF and aUNC then, EF+ or something? GUNC?? Sorry, still a novice, I will buy the book!

There is no officially laid down grading nomenclature but most people go with (in ascending order);

Poor

Fair

F

GF

NVF

VF

GVF

NEF

EF

GEF

AU

Unc.

'+' and '?' are often thrown in just to indicate that it is (in the grader's opinion) better than or not quite as good as the stated grade. You will also come across 'Good' and 'Very Good' which are only semi-official in the UK although the norm in America and an attrocious mis-use of the English language actually being less than 'fine'! However, don't let me put you off from buying the book...

Thanks again, and BU being the very top grade?

Two more coins for members' grading opinions (if people don't mind?)

Looks UNC to me. Nice toning too.

[Paulus]

Thanks Nick, it allowed me to post more in a separate post:

[azda]

I Take it Nick, you did'nt See the wear on the REV leaves on the sixpence?

[Nick]

I Take it Nick, you did'nt See the wear on the REV leaves on the sixpence?

I didn't no, and I still don't. Please tell me which leaf(ves) I should be looking at.

[Peter]

A very nice coin.GF max but problem free

[Peter]

We have a joint of pork roasting...My dogs are doing their nut..and my farthings are out...plus Mrs Peter says I can go to the Feb Midland fair...happy days although we only have white wine

[Paulus]

We have a joint of pork roasting...My dogs are doing their nut..and my farthings are out...plus Mrs Peter says I can go to the Feb Midland fair...happy days although we only have white wine

Quick dog walk to the offy for a bottle of red then ... takibg your farthings with you of course!

[Peckris]

Two more coins for members' grading opinions (if people don't mind?)

That's as clear an UNC as I've seen in that series, and with a delicious golden toning too. Very very nice!

Thanks Nick, it allowed me to post more in a separate post:

That's only Fair (obverse) but the reverse is certainly Fine. So I'd say Fair/Fine.

(Is this schoopid thing playing up today? Won't let me reply to posts with images in. )

[azda]

I Take it Nick, you did'nt See the wear on the REV leaves on the sixpence?

I didn't no, and I still don't. Please tell me which leaf(ves) I should be looking at.

Surptising.....Ok, well top leaves on the left have veins, follow those leaves down and the veins are disspearing which would then indicate wear. Right hand side, in the middle of the coin, middle leave are worn. Mayybe i'm just imagining it, but looks clear enough to me.

[Peckris]

I Take it Nick, you did'nt See the wear on the REV leaves on the sixpence?

I didn't no, and I still don't. Please tell me which leaf(ves) I should be looking at.

Surptising.....Ok, well top leaves on the left have veins, follow those leaves down and the veins are disspearing which would then indicate wear. Right hand side, in the middle of the coin, middle leave are worn. Mayybe i'm just imagining it, but looks clear enough to me.

The first points of wear on that reverse are not only the leaves, but the jewels and raised parts on the crown, and the letters. There aren't complete leaf veins on that design - it looks and feels UNC to me. Full lustre.

[azda]

Then why have the top leaves got complete veins?

[Peter]

Just found some Xmas Stilton a rancid bottle of Vodka plus a bottle of red..just a cigar and bit of....

[Coinery]

Thanks Red, they are very valuable observations and underlines to me that it is a real lottery buying high grade coins on-line as you can't see them in the hand ... my ignorance is also embarrassing, I thought GEF was better than EF! What is in between EF and aUNC then, EF+ or something? GUNC?? Sorry, still a novice, I will buy the book!

There is no officially laid down grading nomenclature but most people go with (in ascending order);

Poor

Fair

F

GF

NVF

VF

GVF

NEF

EF

GEF

AU

Unc.

'+' and '?' are often thrown in just to indicate that it is (in the grader's opinion) better than or not quite as good as the stated grade. You will also come across 'Good' and 'Very Good' which are only semi-official in the UK although the norm in America and an attrocious mis-use of the English language actually being less than 'fine'! However, don't let me put you off from buying the book...

Thanks again, and BU being the very top grade?

Two more coins for members' grading opinions (if people don't mind?)

Shame about all that nasty tarnish ;-) I'd pay £60 for a coin like that any day of the week!

[Coinery]

Would you mind me asking what your set-up was for the photography? One of the more difficult monarchs to photograph, and small denomination, well done, I'd say!

[Peckris]

Then why have the top leaves got complete veins?

That's just the way the reverse was designed. I have an 1887 wreath reverse 6d in EF - the top veins are gone, the rounded parts of the crown are flat, the oak leaves are flattening, etc etc, but the veins on the two lower left leaves are still intact. Overall, the wear on that coin is obvious. There's no apparent wear at all on this one. None.

[Rob]

The picture is a bit bright, but I'd give the obverse better than EF, the rev is probably better than the obverse. I'd hesitate to say unc because both rims have far too many significant marks to say they are bagmarks only and the neck area looks to have a lot of tiny contact marks, so an upper limit of gEF. There appears to be light wear to the beard, but a darker picture would help.

[Coinery]

Try as I may, I can't see anything less than AU from the photos! I'd love to believe it's UNC, it's a beautiful coin...£60 still stands :-)