The Elusive 1854 Half Sovereign - Has Anybody Ever seen The Royal Mint

[VickySilver]

I have seen this coin, the 1854 half sovereign referred to by Marsh who seems to not clearly state that he had seen one. I have not, nor has anybody I know. It has been variously listed in Coincraft many years ago, and even in Spink.

I wonder if anybody can confirm seeing one, or even go one better by posting a picture of it?

[Peckris]

I have seen this coin, the 1854 half sovereign referred to by Marsh who seems to not clearly state that he had seen one. I have not, nor has anybody I know. It has been variously listed in Coincraft many years ago, and even in Spink.

I wonder if anybody can confirm seeing one, or even go one better by posting a picture of it?

I'm trying to understand your message - you say you've seen one, then you say you haven't!

[VickySilver]

I have not seen this coin, and it is "legendary" in my book. Please post a picture or cite a reference if you have it.

Rob P????

PS Sorry, a typo as I wrote this at work . NOT seen is what I meant.

Edited February 22, 2011 by VickySilver

[Peckris]

I have not seen this coin, and it is "legendary" in my book. Please post a picture or cite a reference if you have it.

Rob P????

No no, I definitely haven't! I was just puzzled by your conflicting message.

[HistoryTreasures]

I have it, but I am keeping it secret in my Swiss bank account

NOT!

[VickySilver]

Might want to see what it brings at auction in this market! [Or sell it to me!]

Seriously, I have seen these in several old catalogues listed in Fine condition but nobody has been able to confirm existence of this coin in recent times. I do find it interesting that Marsh, who seems to not have actually seen specimen, lists it without stating "reported, not confirmed".

[VickySilver]

Anybody?

[SionGilbey]

There were over 1 million minted but as we know this doesn't mean that over 1 million exist.

But statistically there must be one somewhere... I think...

[Rob]

I have not seen this coin, and it is "legendary" in my book. Please post a picture or cite a reference if you have it.

Rob P????

PS Sorry, a typo as I wrote this at work . NOT seen is what I meant.

I've no idea at present as I haven't checked out 1/2 sovs, but will keep an eye open for a reference. They aren't a commonly collected denomination to any depth, so any occurence is likely to be random which is unhelpful when searching catalogues. It's likely to be a Captain Oates moment.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Rob

[VickySilver]

Rob, I am thinking that if there is such a beast that it mustn't have been for sale in the last ten years or so and would be before that. According to the few listings I have seen this coin is likely, if it exists to be in F condition. Wonder if the mintage for the year could have been sent to some far off colony and most subsequently melted or meeting some such ugly fate....

Something like the die 6 1878 Dritanniar sixpences sent to Cyprus. BTW, has anybody ever seen one of these better than EF (the 6d that is)?

Edited February 25, 2011 by VickySilver

[ski]

Something like the die 6 1878 Dritanniar sixpences sent to Cyprus. BTW, has anybody ever seen one of these better than EF (the 6d that is)?

ive only seen vf

Edited February 25, 2011 by ski

[VickySilver]

Spink had one of the Dritanniars for sale 6 or so months ago that I believe is in a PCGS holder 64 - that is incredible as mine is the usual vf or so like all others I have seen. Doubt the Cypriots took much care with those that came their way, or possibly that is only a rumour??

[VickySilver]

Just thought I would resurrect this thread. I DO like this denomination, but have had absolutely no success in confirming the 1854 & am inclined to think it does not exist after conversations with many milled predecimal experts.

Interesting that the 1862 half sov evidently went unnoticed until 1979...Kind of like some of the new species that show up now and then in the natural world (oh please don't mention the "Megalodon" that sank the ship off South Africa in April of this year!).

[numismatist]

I DID have a 1878 DRITANNIAR Sixpence that was BU Gem and acceptable as

such by John Duggan. That was in the 1970's . I've forgotten how much he paid

but I drove it 100 plus miles and back to take to to him so it must have been a

lot of money even back then .

[VickySilver]

Wonder if that was the Spink coin?

[Mr T]

Sorry to drag this up without a concrete answer but it seems there have been a few major sovereign collections sell in the last few years - I don't suppose any of them had corresponding half sovereign collections?

Have you tried asking the Royal Mint or British Museum if they have any examples too? Not sure whether either collection is complete enough for their answer to give any closure but it can't hurt to ask.

[azda]

According to the Michael Marsh book on half sovs, there was 1.124,144 1854s minted and is R6 rated, yet an 1850 has a mintage of only 179,595 and is rated As R2, so i don't know how that works in the grand Scheme of things, normally a higher mintage would have a lower rarity rating

[Rob]

Must mean they were dated 1853 even though struck a year later

[Rob]

Sorry to drag this up without a concrete answer but it seems there have been a few major sovereign collections sell in the last few years - I don't suppose any of them had corresponding half sovereign collections?

Have you tried asking the Royal Mint or British Museum if they have any examples too? Not sure whether either collection is complete enough for their answer to give any closure but it can't hurt to ask.

The mint almost certainly doesn't have one as there is only an 1853 listed in Hocking. Searching the BM site is a bit more problematic, so maybe someone else can help here as I can't seem to search for items reproducibly.

[azda]

Must mean they were dated 1853 even though struck a year later

Not sure about that Rob As he has 1853 with a mintage of 2.708,796 and N rated

Edited July 31, 2015 by azda

[Rob]

Must mean they were dated 1853 even though struck a year later

Not sure about that Rob As he has 1853 with a mintage of 2.708,796 and N rated

Maybe it's a misprunt then. An extra 1 by mistake?

The thing is, the rarity reflects the numbers of each date noted, not the mintage. By the time you get to N rarity it encompasses a fairly wide range of possibilities. This is a perennial problem with currency pieces. Patterns are straightforward as the survivors are likely to closely reflect the original mintage, but currency could be struck using old dies.

[Paulus]

As I understand it, there is no way to know how many were minted that were actually dated 1854 (or any other date)?

[azda]

Its also interesting that the 1848/7 is also an R6 but mintage unknown. Paul, how would Marsh get the mintage figures for the coins if this were the case? He would have to approach the RM for mintage figures for each year

Edited July 31, 2015 by azda

[Rob]

Its also interesting that the 1848/7 is also an R6 but mintage unknown. Paul, how would Marsh get the mintage figures for the coins if this were the case? He would have to approach the RM for mintage figures for each year

Yes, but it wouldn't tell you what dates were on the dies. Mintage will just be a production figure. Same goes for 1947 brass threepences. In the latter case, there are none, so must have used 1946 (or earlier) dies.

[azda]

This is true Rob, but with the 1854 surely with well over 1 million minted as suggested than there must have been a percentage minted for the date, so they must be out there somewhere