1900 penny

[Gary D]

I wasn't aware of there being any varities of the 1900 penny at least not in Freeman or Goulby. The more usual one has the 1st 0 above a gap where as the other one has the 1st 0 rotated slightly giving the impression of the 0 to a bead.

[josie]

Thanks gary for another info.

Anymore difference on two coin besides the 0 on tooth?

[muygrandeoso]

I wasn't aware of there being any varities of the 1900 penny at least not in Freeman or Goulby. The more usual one has the 1st 0 above a gap where as the other one has the 1st 0 rotated slightly giving the impression of the 0 to a bead.

I have found one in a bit better condition.

[muygrandeoso]

Here is an image

[josie]

Thanks gary most likely should always be 2 minor varieties found to differentiate the two, the tail of nine the first one is pointing to bead.

The second example was pointing to the left.

Good picture MUYG is your coin have a ding below the one or it is post mint just curious.

Gary did you found any small 00 on 1900 I think they varies in sized is that the same thing or not some last two zeros are placed well in the middle of 9.

[les occ]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

[DaveG38]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Edited December 31, 2010 by DaveG38

[scott]

8? whaa?

i have these 2 pictured

seems to a striking error on the last one making the teeht dissaper, but both have a small first 0

and interestingly i have another with a closed 9

[scott]

1900 closed 9

also has that slanted 1 over the tooth

by the looks of it your second one is of the same origins, is there a reminant of a previous 1 under the other? and i can see the closed 9 thing as well.

Edited January 8, 2011 by scott

[numidan]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

[Peter]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties

[Coinery]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties

Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter!

[Rob]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties

Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter!

The exponential expansion in the number of varieties categorised only by minescule differences in tooth pointings etc was a primary factor in my decision to refocus. I'm sure most denomination collectors feel compelled to find as many varieties as have been categorised by all writers. If someone says the gap in the border teeth can be x or y microns wide and there is a definitive reference published, someone will collect both. But as always it is each to their own.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Rob

[Peckris]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties

Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter!

The exponential expansion in the number of varieties categorised only by minescule differences in tooth pointings etc was a primary factor in my decision to refocus. I'm sure most denomination collectors feel compelled to find as many varieties as have been categorised by all writers. If someone says the gap in the border teeth can be x or y microns wide and there is a definitive reference published, someone will collect both. But as always it is each to their own.

I quite agree Rob. I remember in the late 1960s, Coin Monthly featured one of those "reader surveys", of 1907 penny reverses. All minute variations in pointing, length of 7 tail, etc etc (yawn), about 6 or 7 "varieties" if I remember. Where are they now? Disappeared without trace. (Thank goodness).

[declanwmagee]

Thing is, if you're upgrading a coin, and then you find out that the VF going out is a scarcer microvariety than the EF coming in, you just have to keep both...don't you?

I'm sure it's the law

...Date Runs Act (Coin Collecting) 1972, I think

[numidan]

People like to collect only dates, it is okay by me. They will have the odd variety because they are popular and really do not understand how they came about, that is okay too. I like to find differences in dies used within the same year. These differences are rare on modern die fabrication using reducing lathes and when I find them, I am happy and if it becomes popular, even happier. I take it to the next step and try to determine what may have happened.

I would go crazy checking 18th and 19th century coins with the same accuracy, it is like every coin was made from a different die, but people like Freeman took the time to catalog these.

So I was just curious to know if there were any changes in the manufacturing process of dies in 1901 such that no (or maybe very few) date spacing exists. Was it due to low coin mintage?

[davidrj]

So I was just curious to know if there were any changes in the manufacturing process of dies in 1901 such that no (or maybe very few) date spacing exists. Was it due to low coin mintage?

There are quite noticable date variations for 1895, 1896 and 1899. The rarity seems to increase with date width,which probably indicates they were spottedand corrected

1897,1900,1901 and the EdVII date variations usually need a lens to spot and are of less interest in my view

Edited August 30, 2012 by davidrj

[Coinery]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

You Freeman and Gouby should be shot I don't need more varieties

Imagine that, if all the Victoria pennies could be sub-divided again by 10? Time to remortgage, Peter!

The exponential expansion in the number of varieties categorised only by minescule differences in tooth pointings etc was a primary factor in my decision to refocus. I'm sure most denomination collectors feel compelled to find as many varieties as have been categorised by all writers. If someone says the gap in the border teeth can be x or y microns wide and there is a definitive reference published, someone will collect both. But as always it is each to their own.

I quite agree Rob. I remember in the late 1960s, Coin Monthly featured one of those "reader surveys", of 1907 penny reverses. All minute variations in pointing, length of 7 tail, etc etc (yawn), about 6 or 7 "varieties" if I remember. Where are they now? Disappeared without trace. (Thank goodness).

There's no denying, though, that this kind of research into micro-varieties can throw up some interesting numismatic questions, such as the 1900/1901 proposal here!

No matter how small the variation, I can totally understand someone who would want an example from each die, even if that meant a page/tray of 1900 pennies (in UNC of course)!

And sorry numisdan I can't help you with your 1900/1901 penny question, hopefully someone on here can!

[scott]

1897 have visiable variations. close 7 and far 7 are miles apart

[Peter]

If you collect farthings (I do) I can't resist some.When I compare a new purchase with an existing coin there are obvious differences.

18C copper....bah humbug I just keep the lot and rearrange my trays.

[scott]

1770+ farthings, like 3 obvious reverse dies... even 1771 has 3 varieties lol

[Accumulator]

1897 have visiable variations. close 7 and far 7 are miles apart

I was about to respectfully point this out:

[Rob]

Hi I am a new member and realise this is an older topic but I would just like to add to the details.

i have a similar 1900 coin and noted as per yours the 1 is slightly smaller & the tail of the 9 is shorter the overall length of the date is ten and half teeth from centre of 1 to centre last 0 whereas the normal length is 11

Thanks les Occ

Hi les occ,

There are in fact 8 different varieties of 1900 penny, all based on the shape of the '9' in the date and the position of it's foot, coupled with the spacing/orientation of the '0's. There are also reports of two other types, one where the '9' is over a border tooth and the second where the designer's initials are missing from under the bust.

Sorry to bring this post back, I find it important that other people contribute to the author’s finds.

I did find 8 different date varieties of 1900 penny. The rarest in my sample was the date having 10 1/2 tooth spacing with an open and skinny 9.

I was suprised to see this many variations since I did not find any date spacing differences for 1901 using a similar sample size! What happened?

Hocking doesn't shed any light on this listing nothing for 1901 pennies. As a suggestion, it is possible that the entire master design was engraved including date prior to reduction. We know that some matrices in the RM are noted as being without date for the veiled head issue and so this would be rational for the dates where spacing varities occur. A consistent date spacing without varieties would suggest the date was not added as required. Just a thought.

[Gary D]

Original poster here.

As requested 1901 penny with last 1 to tooth and 1 to left of tooth (gap).

[Red Riley]

]

Hocking doesn't shed any light on this listing nothing for 1901 pennies. As a suggestion, it is possible that the entire master design was engraved including date prior to reduction. We know that some matrices in the RM are noted as being without date for the veiled head issue and so this would be rational for the dates where spacing varities occur. A consistent date spacing without varieties would suggest the date was not added as required. Just a thought.

Many of these varieties concern the last numeral which is effectively the last thing to be punched into the die. Perhaps the guy responsible had a truly attrocious hangover on 1 January 1901 (remember they celebrated this not 1 January 1900 as the new century) and signed the pledge forthwith, hence steadier hand, punches all numerals in the same place.

Just a theory...