Shillings & Florins in circ. after 1971

[Rob]

1 minute ago, jaggy said:

10/- was a lot of money in 1971 and I cannot remember any vending machine which took the new 50p coins. Electricity meters were usually 1/- (5p). I know there were cigarette vending machines but, as a non (never) smoker, I have no idea what they took.

I never used a machine, as you could buy cigarettes from the shops, but suspect they would have had 10p (2/-) as the largest coin because I vaguely remember 10 Sovereign being 10p, these being the cheapest available.

[Peckris 2]

1 minute ago, jaggy said:

Yes, working in Woolies with the old money and non-electronic registers, you had to be able to count in the old money and you had to get it right because the customers could all count too.

And a pint was 1/11d, so less than 10p.

Or if M&B Mild, 1/10 ! 

By the way, I still remember 5p meters in 1980-82, i.e. the immersion heater in our bedsits bathroom.

[1949threepence]

10 hours ago, jaggy said:

Yes, working in Woolies with the old money and non-electronic registers, you had to be able to count in the old money and you had to get it right because the customers could all count too.

And a pint was 1/11d, so less than 10p.

Yes, that's interesting. You'd have to immediately envisage the difference between the cost of the item, and the amount of change/notes proffered by the customer - and obviously it would very often be for articles costing under one pound/ten shillings. So if they gave you 4 shillings for something costing 3/11, it would just be the one penny. Slightly more complicated, but as soon as you were in the mindset of 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound, you'd be OK. Were prices still marked up using halfpennies at that time? 

I've seen on old films the way change would be given to customers, with the shopkeeper handing back change and as he did so, verbally counting it up from the cost of the item, to the amount handed over by the customer. That way there could be no argument - very effective. 

[1949threepence]

10 hours ago, jaggy said:

10/- was a lot of money in 1971 and I cannot remember any vending machine which took the new 50p coins. Electricity meters were usually 1/- (5p) although, as a student, I do remember my meter taking 10p coins. I know there were cigarette vending machines but, as a non (never) smoker, I have no idea what they took.

Cigarette vending machines - wow. Imagine the furore if they were ever re-introduced. But they clearly satisfied a need at those times when smokers were desperate for a cigarette and the shop was closed. Of course underage kids would also easily be able to buy them from the machine as well.

 

10 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Or if M&B Mild, 1/10 ! 

By the way, I still remember 5p meters in 1980-82, i.e. the immersion heater in our bedsits bathroom.

I've seen one of those 5p or shilling meters at a working museum somewhere. If I remember correctly, you pushed the coin into a tight slot as far as it would go, where it would hold, until you turned a small lever clockwise to drop the coin in.   

[jaggy]

2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes, that's interesting. You'd have to immediately envisage the difference between the cost of the item, and the amount of change/notes proffered by the customer - and obviously it would very often be for articles costing under one pound/ten shillings. So if they gave you 4 shillings for something costing 3/11, it would just be the one penny. Slightly more complicated, but as soon as you were in the mindset of 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound, you'd be OK. Were prices still marked up using halfpennies at that time? 

I've seen on old films the way change would be given to customers, with the shopkeeper handing back change and as he did so, verbally counting it up from the cost of the item, to the amount handed over by the customer. That way there could be no argument - very effective. 

It wasn't hard because we had grown up with the old monetary system and had been taught to count in it at school. I think the old halfpennies were already gone by the time I worked at Woolies. However, I do remember when the child subway fare to go to school was 1.5d. I used to get 3d for the subway but preferred to walk and spend it on sweets. 

[Flash]

8 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I've seen one of those 5p or shilling meters at a working museum somewhere. If I remember correctly, you pushed the coin into a tight slot as far as it would go, where it would hold, until you turned a small lever clockwise to drop the coin in.   

That's how I got started with coins. A friends father was a gas man and he found a Victorian copper Farthing in good very fine condition in a meter whilst emptying it. Can't remember the date though but a nice present in 1973 to a four year old.

[ozjohn]

22 hours ago, jaggy said:

10/- was a lot of money in 1971 and I cannot remember any vending machine which took the new 50p coins. Electricity meters were usually 1/- (5p) although, as a student, I do remember my meter taking 10p coins. I know there were cigarette vending machines but, as a non (never) smoker, I have no idea what they took.

Cigarette machines took a florin for a packet of ten. Always felt good using an Australian florin to buy a packet of cigarettes. Trouble was Australian florins were sterling up to 1946 and 50% silver until decimalisation in 1966 so we were fooling our selves.I gave up smoking in 1973  when I started uni. A packet of Camel or  Chesterfield cost 85 centts at the time.

Edited March 15, 2019 by ozjohn

[Peckris 2]

On 15 March 2019 at 9:34 AM, 1949threepence said:

Yes, that's interesting. You'd have to immediately envisage the difference between the cost of the item, and the amount of change/notes proffered by the customer - and obviously it would very often be for articles costing under one pound/ten shillings. So if they gave you 4 shillings for something costing 3/11, it would just be the one penny. Slightly more complicated, but as soon as you were in the mindset of 12 pennies to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound, you'd be OK. Were prices still marked up using halfpennies at that time? 

I'm currently in a nostalgia thread on Facebook, where  someone posted the introduction of decimal coins in February 1971. Guess what the predominant comments are, that are driving me up the wall trying to show the evidence to disprove?

[jaggy]

4 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

I'm currently in a nostalgia thread on Facebook, where  someone posted the introduction of decimal coins in February 1971. Guess what the predominant comments are, that are driving me up the wall trying to show the evidence to disprove?

Blaming inflation on it?

 

[Peckris 2]

1 hour ago, jaggy said:

Blaming inflation on it?

Got it in one. Plus all the usual "biggest con inflicted on the British public" "some prices doubled overnight" "someone charged 16p for something that was 1/6 before" nonsense!! Amazingly, more than 3/4 of the posts are to that effect. Talk about urban myths. 

[jaggy]

6 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Got it in one. Plus all the usual "biggest con inflicted on the British public" "some prices doubled overnight" "someone charged 16p for something that was 1/6 before" nonsense!! Amazingly, more than 3/4 of the posts are to that effect. Talk about urban myths. 

 

Here are the inflation rates for the period. It is arguable that the 3% jump from 6.4% to 9.4% could be down to decimilisation. However, the big jump to 16% happened three years after decimilisation and was part of a world wide trend.  

1978	8.3%	5.92
1977	15.8%	6.86
1976	16.5%	7.99
1975	24.2%	9.92
1974	16.0%	11.50
1973	9.2%	12.60
1972	7.1%	13.50
1971	9.4%	14.70

1970

6.4%

15.70

 

http://inflation.iamkate.com

[Peckris 2]

1 hour ago, jaggy said:

 

Here are the inflation rates for the period. It is arguable that the 3% jump from 6.4% to 9.4% could be down to decimilisation. However, the big jump to 16% happened three years after decimilisation and was part of a world wide trend.  

1978	8.3%	5.92
1977	15.8%	6.86
1976	16.5%	7.99
1975	24.2%	9.92
1974	16.0%	11.50
1973	9.2%	12.60
1972	7.1%	13.50
1971	9.4%	14.70

1970

6.4%

15.70

 

http://inflation.iamkate.com

Yes - and the biggest jump in 1971 was March to April (nearly 3%) which seems to point the finger squarely at decimalisation. However, when you look at the equivalent figures in 1969, 1970, and 1972, again the biggest jump is March to April, which seems more to point the finger at the end/start of a tax year than anything else.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

Got it in one. Plus all the usual "biggest con inflicted on the British public" "some prices doubled overnight" "someone charged 16p for something that was 1/6 before" nonsense!! Amazingly, more than 3/4 of the posts are to that effect. Talk about urban myths. 

Probably a lot of then weren't even born at the time, and are just spouting unthought out rubbish without ever checking the facts from the time. If they were old enough to have been there at the time, there's even less excuse for not remembering - for example - the 1973 oil price hike.

 

  

[Peckris 2]

Just now, 1949threepence said:

Probably a lot of then weren't even born at the time, and are just spouting unthought out rubbish without ever checking the facts from the time. If they were old enough to have been there at the time, there's even less excuse for not remembering - for example - the 1973 oil price hike.

Yet they seem to be "old fogeys"  who claim to have been there at the time, but they seem to have very short memories for anything except urban myths! Mind you, they weren't numismatists so they had no special interest in the subject as we did. 

[jaggy]

1 minute ago, Peckris 2 said:

Yet they seem to be "old fogeys"  who claim to have been there at the time, but they seem to have very short memories for anything except urban myths! Mind you, they weren't numismatists so they had no special interest in the subject as we did. 

To actually have a real memory of decimilisation, you really needed to be 10-12 years old at the time. So if they aren't 58 or older, then they probably don't remember it.

This 'old fogey' was 16 years old. 😂

[Peckris 2]

1 minute ago, jaggy said:

To actually have a real memory of decimilisation, you really needed to be 10-12 years old at the time. So if they aren't 58 or older, then they probably don't remember it.

This 'old fogey' was 16 years old. 😂

This one was 18!

[Rob]

What figures were used at the time to compile inflation? January sales clear the decks for the new year's stock - when restocking you would think it a good time to introduce the latest models/designs which are things that normally command a premium. i.e. is the upturn in inflation in March/April a function of business cycles based on the above with lower than average prices being replaced by higher than average prices? I can't see the inflation being related to the tax year for many items.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Rob

[Chingford]

I was only 7 at the time of decimalisation, but it was the beginning of my Interest in coins and started me collecting.

At School we were being taught the new decimal systems, in measurement with coloured blocks of wood and tables/cardboard coins for monetary comparison, I still have the tables somewhere and will post it when I can find them.

My most vivid memory was going to the Corner shop with my siblings and them handing over their old coppers to receive shiny new but smaller coins, I wouldn't exchange my larger coins for smaller ones and kept them, finding them out years later and building my collections from them.

[Peckris 2]

17 hours ago, Rob said:

What figures were used at the time to compile inflation? January sales clear the decks for the new year's stock - when restocking you would think it a good time to introduce the latest models/designs which are things that normally command a premium. i.e. is the upturn in inflation in March/April a function of business cycles based on the above with lower than average prices being replaced by higher than average prices? I can't see the inflation being related to the tax year for many items.

According to the official site 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/whatsinthebasketofgoods70yearsofshoppinghistory/2016-07-21

the "basket of goods" to measure inflation has been used for seven decades. It's reviewed regularly and some items taken out and new ones added as fashions change, but it's still the most reliable indicator for CPI inflation. Apparently the measurement dates from January each year, so that doesn't account for March to April.

The spreadsheet I've got shows monthly inflation from 1962 to 1973. In every year bar one, the increase from March to April is the biggest; the exception being 1963 where the increase is modest, but then it begins to reduce for the rest of the year. The other possibility is that buyers (private and / or commercial) were using up their budgets and allowances before the new tax year started and that high demand generally results in higher prices. However, I can't see that applying to the sort of everyday items that would be in the 'basket of goods'. So it's a bit of a mystery.

Edit: mystery solved! Traditionally the date of the Chancellor's Budget was March, so as duties would get added immediately on things like alcohol, tobacco, and fuel, those would have seen a big increase in inflation for a month.

[Rob]

Well done Sherlock.