The Proclamation Coins

[Madness]

Let me tell you a tale, a tale so full of mystery and wonder that it will make your teeth curl, your hair turn an interesting shade of purple and your dog collect the morning newspaper whilst wearing an evening jacket.  

Eleven coins; Four world powers; A desperate, fledgling colony 

Let us begin with the words of Governor Philip King, delivered conversationally to an audience of several in Sydney, November 19th 1800:

"19th Nov. The Currency WHEREAS Representations of the Want of small money, experienced here, has Induced His Majesty to take into His Gracious Consideration the Immediate relief from this great Inconvenience to all Classes of His Subjects in this Colony, a Quantity of Copper Coin has been received in His Majesty's Armed Vessel 'Porpoise', and will be circulated, by being paid for Grain and Animal Food supplied His Majesty's Stores.

"A Twopence Coin These are therefore to give notice, that a Copper Coin, weighing One English ounce, and stamped with the profile of His Majesty on the one side, and of Britannia on the other, will be Issued as Above, at the rate of Two pence for each Copper; and that the same shall be paid and pass Current in the Colony, and is to Circulate at the Aforesaid Rate of Two pence.

"The Legal Tender And that no one may plead Ignorance of the Rate or Legality of this or any other of the Coins circulating in this Colony, of which it does not appear that any regular Proclamation has ever collectively been issued, I have judged it most expedient herewith to publish the following Table of all the specie legally circulating in this Colony, with the Rates Affixed to each, at which they shall be considered, and be a legal tender in all payments or transactions in this Colony. .

"Table of specie  A Guinea, a Johanna, a Half-Johanna, a Ducat, a Gold Mohur, a Pagoda, a Spanish dollar, a Rupee, a Dutch guilder, an English Shilling, a Copper coin of One Ounce [editor's note: I have no idea how to insert tables or use the Pound symbol on my colonial keyboard, so this list must suffice for the time being]

When a sufficient quantity of Copper Coin is received in the Colony, of which notice will be given, no private Notes or Cards will be allowed to Circulate. 

"Copper coin for small amounts only  This Supply of Copper having been sent to relieve the Inconvenience of persons requiring to make small payments, no persons are to Collect the same for the purpose of making large payments, nor shall it be deemed a legal tender to offer the same in payment for any sum exceeding five pounds. 

"Coin to Be Kept in Colony And it is hereby declared that the Exportation or Importation, except from His Majesty's Treasury, of any sum in Copper exceeding five pounds shall be punished by a Fine of treble the value, and forfeiture of the sum exported or imported...."

@DrLarry has recently been sentenced to transportation to the aforesaid penal colony for the period of no less than seven years for encouraging the indictable offence that is this thread.   

In forthcoming episodic posts we shall hear how this state of affairs came to be, how the author came to track its trail and, due to repeated insistence of many, the colourful language that Mrs King used to describe her convict servant on Thursday last.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Madness

[ozjohn]

Some Spanish dollars became the Holley dollar which had the center punched out  and called the dump valued at 1/- 6d and the rim valued at 5/-. The idea being to keep the coin in the new colony as it was now worth less than normal Spanish dollars. A genuine dump or dollar is very much sought after nowadays. Many fakes exist.

[ozjohn]

Correction the center dump was valued at 15 pence 1s 3d not 1s 6d. It was a different concept to counter marked Spanish dollars  of 5s value as the total value was 6s 3d as an attempt to keep the coins in the Colony. Also the rim and the dump circulated separately . This was also done in Prince Edward Island Canada.

[Madness]

Aha! With much fanfare I announce that I've found a way to insert a table, thus circumventing my own stupidity.  Here is the value of each of the eleven coins in the colony of New South Wales as proclaimed in 1800:

I decided to interview a local trader at the cost of two ales to determine the impact that this had upon his business:

Madness: Given the variation in exchange rate in the current economic clime, does governor King's standardisation of currency affect your trade and, if so, how has this impacted your bottom line?

Local Trader: Bugger off.

Madness: Thank you for your insight.

Subsequent to this interview, and having received a report from my junior research assistant, I was in receipt of certain information.  Apparently there was more coin going out of the colony that going in.  Impact: There wasn't enough to go round and, therefore, the economy depended on bartering and "IOU"'s.  By making coins worth more than their face value it was hoped that the coins would stay put and that some semblance of stability could be established.  Intended result: Circulation was like an anatomically-correct belly button, more in-y than out-y.

Did the system work? Did King get it wrong?  Did Trump's great-great-great-great-great uncle launch a preemptive trade war against the convict settlement?  Stay tuned as we answer these questions and more.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Madness

[copper123]

They expected a load of convicts to remember these exchange rates!?

Most would probably struggle with the word "the"

[Michael-Roo]

Glass houses...

[copper123]

lol

[Michael-Roo]

[copper123]

Oh yes and I could mention that many australians are actually proud from being from the "english reject stock" .

The brexit vote was more in frustration that we have to let this lot of chancers into the uk from europe than any other reason , well my idea of why they won anyway .

[copper123]

They must be a bit thick anyway to accept a coin saying one penny on it circulate for two pennies

[Michael-Roo]

 

I was beginning to feel it was a little unfair of me to have posted the 'glass houses' comment. 

I see now I am vindicated.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Michael-Roo

[copper123]

30 minutes ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

I was beginning to feel it was a little unfair of me to have posted the 'glass houses' comment. 

I see now I am vindicated.

Now , now , is it not right that everyone has an opinion and is allowed to share it ?

I said it was my opinion  that the brexit vote went that way - i never actually voted -as i think I was not informed enough about  what the vote was about  , I still have no opinion either way but I also have a great  belief  that this country will actually do better out of europe , only politics can ruin things now and the best thing is no fingers can be pointed at europe and the  "Its all their fault " excuse  will no longer exist .

[copper123]

6 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

well luckily for most forum members, according to that Rees Mogg character, we will not see the benefit for at least 50 years .....so it won't have a direct consequence on our elderly residents 

wont be any good to me then lol

[Michael-Roo]

 

Your political preferences are yours alone and none of my business. 

I made my 'glass houses' comment in response to your suggestion our Antipodean cousins may be unable to construct a coherent sentence.

That you didn't get this is priceless. 

[jelida]

38 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I am sure there is at least 1% ( the figure might be 0.5%) of British that are not from Europe at some point over the last 2000 years 

Grammar aside, I am really not sure what you are getting at here. If you go back far enough, we are probably almost all the product of African human evolution and migration, with multiple further phases of subtle racial and tribal genetic concentrations within populations and subsequent migrations and conquests. But even the Roman and Anglo Saxon and Norman population movements were no more than a few percentage at the time, and the inevitable incorporation of their genetic markers into the general population over time and reproduction  (and we were in those days talking of populations in the single figures of millions)  does not somehow confer a European nationality as opposed to  the multi generational ‘British’ nationality most of those of us born within the UK feel. So while I certainly accept that most if not all of us have a host of markers reflecting the population movements of humanity , what is your point? The majority of the population of Europe will also carry markers of their African, and subsequent Celtic, British, Scandinavian, Teutonic ,Germanic, Slavic, Arab and a multitude of other heritages.

Nationality is not a matter of genetic origin, it is a state of mind.

Jerry

[Madness]

We of convict stock have many Neanderthal genetic markers.  To dispel another myth, not all of us are called Bruce.  Many are known affectionately as "Dickhead" or "Wanker".

Edited July 27, 2018 by Madness

[Madness]

Australia was invented as a construct to ensure that everyone else felt superior to someone.

[jelida]

7 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

sorry I hold no value to the notion of nationality, or nationhood, most are simply constructs that seek to be divisive in some way attempting to create schisms of one form or another within populations.  Certainly not "probably" definitely depends when you want to stop going back but we will perhaps select a time when Homo sapiens branched off from H. erectus or H habilis or H. florisiensis  and there is also a percentage of  Homo sapien Neanderthal in mixed populations of Homo sapiens sapiens and migration across most land bridges simply divides a species population.  All constructs of nationhood in the modern age are established to enable one group to feel superior to another 

And you always know what to expect when a sentences starts with Grammar aside 

Which is why I ask what you were getting at by your post. 

And I have no Idea what to expect by a ‘Grammar aside’ comment, other than I wasn’t sure what you were getting at and the probematic grammar didn’t help.  I suspect the comment usually follows grammatically unclear sentances.  But you clearly have other interpretations which you wish to impose on me.

Jerry

[Madness]

@DrLarry @jelida

Please take your discussion to PM rather than filling my thread with dross.

[mrbadexample]

1 hour ago, copper123 said:

They must be a bit thick anyway to accept a coin saying one penny on it circulate for two pennies

But this is the denominationless cartwheel, is it not? 🤔

[jelida]

8 hours ago, Madness said:

@DrLarry @jelida

Please take your discussion to PM rather than filling my thread with dross.

That is fair comment, point taken.

Jerry

[copper123]

9 hours ago, DrLarry said:

well luckily for most forum members, according to that Rees Mogg character, we will not see the benefit for at least 50 years .....so it won't have a direct consequence on our elderly residents 

9 hours ago, copper123 said:

So the £350 million that we all spent a week sending to europe will dissapear into the either when we are out of the eec , sounds like a tory tax raiseing trick to me they always use them as soon as they get into power remember the vat rises in 1979 and more recently to 17.5 %

 

[copper123]

8 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

But this is the denominationless cartwheel, is it not? 🤔

it is and sorry I forgot it does not have its value on it anywhere

[Peckris]

11 hours ago, jelida said:

Grammar aside, I am really not sure what you are getting at here. If you go back far enough, we are probably almost all the product of African human evolution and migration, with multiple further phases of subtle racial and tribal genetic concentrations within populations and subsequent migrations and conquests. 

Yes, true.

But even the Roman and Anglo Saxon and Norman population movements were no more than a few percentage at the time, and the inevitable incorporation of their genetic markers into the general population over time and reproduction  (and we were in those days talking of populations in the single figures of millions)  does not somehow confer a European nationality as opposed to  the multi generational ‘British’ nationality most of those of us born within the UK feel. So while I certainly accept that most if not all of us have a host of markers reflecting the population movements of humanity , what is your point? The majority of the population of Europe will also carry markers of their African, and subsequent Celtic, British, Scandinavian, Teutonic ,Germanic, Slavic, Arab and a multitude of other heritages.

Sorry, what is YOUR point? Britain, along with the rest of Europe .. and America, and the Antipodes, and South America, and Asia, is - as you say - a big genetic melting pot. The EU on the other hand is not a nation, it's a confederation of nations each with their own genetic melting pot, that was formed to prevent obscenities like WW2 from ever happening again, at least in Europe. To that extent it has succeeded, even more than Winston Churchill - its great exponent - predicted. So now that the US is turning back in on itself with tariffs, and we're about to lose our membership of the world's biggest single market with no-one outside falling over themselves to make deals with us (as even Rees-Mogg admits), what on earth is Brexit all about?

Nationality is not a matter of genetic origin, it is a state of mind.

Jerry

 

[Madness]

RANT

Not you too, @Peckris. This is not the place for political animosity.  Why are you all so hell bent on crapping on my thread?  Take it outside, gentlemen.  

If you insist on persisting, here's the place to do it:

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Madness