What coins would have been buried

[ShaggyBFC]

Hello all,  I'm not a coin collector, but I am looking for some information on (British) coinage. 

My father once told me a story of when he and my mother were first married and living in a farms tied cottage.  He told me that there was a elderly couple living next door, who had recently passed away.  Their family came to the cottage, cleared out what they wanted and left the rest telling my parents that they were welcome to take anything left as long as they tidied the house ready for the next tenant.  My parents being newly weds, took everything even if they needed it or not.  Whilst they were cleaning, my father noticed that a small alcove had been simply wall-papered over.  When he broke through the paper, he found approximately 8 -10 large glass sweet jars filled with old coins. As these were not legal tender, he didn't see any value and simply buried them in the garden along with other items deemed worthless.  This would have been circa 1958-60.  I believe they are still buried in the garden today.  Alas, they didn't stay in this cottage, so it's not as simple as digging them up to see.  

So the question is, what do you think these coins are considering the large quantity of them and not being legal tender, therefore having no value?  I'm putting 2 and 2 together, thinking that they could be Roman - with them being farmers and the cottage being close to a roman road - what do you think?

Thanks for any information.

[PWA 1967]

Think your dad would of kept them if Roman.

Maybe farming tokens but not a clue.......Maybe go and dig them back up 

[zookeeperz]

7 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Think your dad would of kept them if Roman.

Maybe farming tokens but not a clue.......Maybe go and dig them back up 

I'll volunteer

[argentumandcoins]

That's a mighty assumption re Roman. They could have been anything from ancient to Foreign (not forgetting tokens as mentioned by Pete). The most probable answer would be GB copper coinage as any bag at any auction always has the ubiquitous 1806 halfpenny, 1797 penny etc in it. Copper coins became obsolete in 1860 with the switch to the smaller and lighter bronze coins.

[ShaggyBFC]

Thanks., The thought of staking out the place, going there at 02.00 and covertly digging them up had crossed my mind

Without doing my father an injustice, he was a simple man and wouldn't know his derriere for his elbow.  

[zookeeperz]

1 minute ago, ShaggyBFC said:

Thanks., The thought of staking out the place, going there at 02.00 and covertly digging them up had crossed my mind

Without doing my father an injustice, he was a simple man and wouldn't know his derriere for his elbow.  

If it were me and that's only because I laugh in the face of danger (not) I'd be loading the van with shovels as we speak

[ShaggyBFC]

5 minutes ago, argentumandcoins said:

That's a mighty assumption re Roman. They could have been anything from ancient to Foreign (not forgetting tokens as mentioned by Pete). The most probable answer would be GB copper coinage as any bag at any auction always has the ubiquitous 1806 halfpenny, 1797 penny etc in it. Copper coins became obsolete in 1860 with the switch to the smaller and lighter bronze coins.

Great, thanks for the information, this is fascinating.  Roman coins - yes, I'm probably dreaming. 

I'm trying to understand why someone would have so many coins in one place. Surely if they had be a coin enthusiast, then they would have been stored better and if they were once legal tender to 1860, then why would someone not spend them / cash them in, before this couple happened upon them?  Also, I'm assuming that if they were copper coins, then this sort of quantity would have been worth a fair amount?

Is there any value in farm tokens?     

[argentumandcoins]

Everything sells  and everything has a value. If they are lead tokens from grain sacks etc the commercial value will be small. The real value is in the story and the mystique is it not?

[ShaggyBFC]

5 minutes ago, argentumandcoins said:

Everything sells  and everything has a value. If they are lead tokens from grain sacks etc the commercial value will be small. The real value is in the story and the mystique is it not?

it is indeed. I'm just risk assessing if it's worth digging up someones garden in the middle of the night and getting arrested  For lead, it's certainly not worth it, they can stay in the ground until the owners want to build an extension. 

[mrbadexample]

19 minutes ago, ShaggyBFC said:

it is indeed. I'm just risk assessing if it's worth digging up someones garden in the middle of the night and getting arrested  For lead, it's certainly not worth it, they can stay in the ground until the owners want to build an extension. 

Think you'd have to know where it was buried to the inch. 

How about knocking on the door and offering them half if you tell them what & where it is?

[Flash]

Not coin related but anyone else notice the similarities with a Mr Christie of Rillington Place? He kept some things in a wallpapered off alcove.

[Ukstu]

Night hawking someone's lawn ?. Seriously though they could of been from an ancient hoard. Years ago there wasn't much of a market for old coins and somebody may have ploughed them out and just bunged them in a jar. The suspense of not knowing would haunt me for the rest of my days. What if.....

I got told a story years ago and given a map of where some rhodium or platinum bars were buried. This old guy told me had apparently stolen them out of second world war search lights he said and buried them at this location.  Turned up shovel and detector in hand there was a motorway right over the top of it. ?

Edited October 9, 2017 by Ukstu

[ShaggyBFC]

4 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

Think you'd have to know where it was buried to the inch. 

How about knocking on the door and offering them half if you tell them what & where it is?

I have considered just knocking on the door, but I fear 1) they'd think I was some sort of weirdo 2) they would just say thanks and did them up for themselves.

 

[mrbadexample]

4 minutes ago, ShaggyBFC said:

2) they would just say thanks and did them up for themselves.

 

That's the hard bit to overcome, but otherwise you're burglin'. 

[Ukstu]

1 hour ago, ShaggyBFC said:

I have considered just knocking on the door, but I fear 1) they'd think I was some sort of weirdo 2) they would just say thanks and did them up for themselves.

 

That's probably an accurate description of what would happen unfortunately. I am sure there was a case in hackney years ago where a jar of gold coins was buried during the blitz. The family took a direct hit in the anderson shelter and all died. The coins where dug out of a rockery in 2007 and ended up being returned to the decendants of the family in Israel. But obviously that case involved an honest finder.Google the Hackney Hoard.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Ukstu

[ShaggyBFC]

Hi chaps, I suppose a question for the metal detectorists. A 'very' hypothetical question.  If these coins were found to be Roman or the likes, would they be classed as treasure trove - considering they were first dug up 60ish years ago, and relocated?  This has really captured my imagination.  After a bit of investigation, the burial site is within a half a mile radius of; a Roman fort, an Iron-age fort, a Roman settlement and a major Roman road (the Fosse-way) [saying this, I expect almost everywhere in Britain could have the same claim]

Thanks

[Unwilling Numismatist]

If they were Roman (or any other significant type of treasure as deemed by the Treasure Act), they would be classed as a hoard and would need to be declared, as I guess they weren't previously disclaimed under the Treasure Trove law  (were they? ... paperwork required).

If you can get permission I'd love to help!

Its a great tale, it would be good to finally lay it to rest either way.

 

 

 

 

 

[ShaggyBFC]

16 minutes ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

If they were Roman (or any other significant type of treasure as deemed by the Treasure Act), they would be classed as a hoard and would need to be declared, as I guess they weren't previously disclaimed under the Treasure Trove law  (were they? ... paperwork required).

If you can get permission I'd love to help!

Its a great tale, it would be good to finally lay it to rest either way.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I'm assuming they were never declared / claimed, I'd have not idea - All I have as a lead is the property address - I don't know the name of the original tenant / finder. I'm going to have a look around the local museum and have a chat with someone there.  I'll keep you informed on any progress I make.

[Unwilling Numismatist]

Good luck.

It might be worth you checking out the Finds liaison Officer for that area from the PAS website, they will have access to all previous records.

https://finds.org.uk/contacts

 

[copper123]

On 09/10/2017 at 3:03 PM, Flash said:

Not coin related but anyone else notice the similarities with a Mr Christie of Rillington Place? He kept some things in a wallpapered off alcove.

After having sex with them

Edited October 24, 2017 by copper123

[Ukstu]

2 hours ago, copper123 said:

After having sex with them

I remember the old movie with Richard Attenborough playing him. Creepy guy lol. 

[copper123]

Brighton rock is a better film

[Peckris]

On 9 October 2017 at 2:06 PM, ShaggyBFC said:

Great, thanks for the information, this is fascinating.  Roman coins - yes, I'm probably dreaming. 

No need to dream. The vast majority of Roman coins found in this country are mid-to-late Empire bronze, exceedingly common and with average wear, worth very little especially if 'burial green'.

[Unwilling Numismatist]

Mostly pretty worthless even if not 'burial green' these days as so many have been found.

[ShaggyBFC]

thanks for the replies - disappointing, I'll have to cancel my order for a new Lamborghini now   I however do have the 'bug', I've just purchased myself a metal detector and secured permission to detect on farm land close by.  I look forward to posting some of my finds on this forum.