EU referendum - in or out?

[1949threepence]

8 hours ago, azda said:

Whatever happens, the next 24hrs will be interesting.....Cameron might be out of a job soon which would be an added bonus....

I'll be watching with interest

and who's going to replace him? The (pretending to be) buffoon Boris Johnson?, George Osborne? Teresa May?

Nothing will change whether Cameron stays or goes.

It's a high stakes gamble for Johnson who is obviously aiming for Cameron's job. If the Brexiters lose it's curtains for his credibility, and Cameron will make sure he's history. If they win there's absolutely no certainty he'll get the job anyway.  

 

[Rob]

That's the trouble with politics. It always degenerates into a mud slinging match instead of addressing the issues at hand. If you wanted to get Parliament functioning as it was intended, i.e. dealing with the nation's issues and controlling the country, you could do it on a shoestring. There's not more than a few dozen MPs that are fit for purpose. All the outspoken ones that refuse to toe the party line can have a job, as that's the only way to get original thinking.

[ChKy]

http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Gauck-erinnert-an-Skagerrak-Schlacht-article17823501.html

http://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/politik/Briten-in-Deutschland-blicken-besorgt-auf-moeglichen-Brexit-article18026296.html

Edited June 23, 2016 by ChKy

[azda]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

That's the trouble with politics. It always degenerates into a mud slinging match instead of addressing the issues at hand. If you wanted to get Parliament functioning as it was intended, i.e. dealing with the nation's issues and controlling the country, you could do it on a shoestring. There's not more than a few dozen MPs that are fit for purpose. All the outspoken ones that refuse to toe the party line can have a job, as that's the only way to get original thinking.

Isn't mud slinging what they do in Parlliament instead of getting on with the job?

[Paulus]

Sanity has prevailed, contrary to all predictions. Belief in common sense has somewhat returned

[Rob]

Quote of the night I believe belongs to Ed Miliband. 'There are a lot of issues that have been around for a very long time'............precisely Mr M. So long in fact that you could have done something about them too.

Isn't it a bugger for politicians when you don't have a predetermined outcome.

[Paulus]

4 minutes ago, Rob said:

Quote of the night I believe belongs to Ed Miliband. 'There are a lot of issues that have been around for a very long time'............precisely Mr M. So long in fact that you could have done something about them too.

Isn't it a bugger for politicians when you don't have a predetermined outcome.

We won't get fooled again 

[Rob]

I wonder if this is the first time the politicians have actually done a survey of public opinion on this matter. The overwhelming response of those interviewed seems to be one of complete surprise. They actually had no feel for what the voters thought.

 

[1949threepence]

What was it Mark Twain said?

"The people have spoken, the bastards"  

 

[Peter]

I hope the package holiday wallahs had changed up their holiday £. I'm looking forward to the design of the new 50p and the Yanks will be buying all our coins.That is all.....

[mhcoins]

Good to see the Leave campaign have already started to reveal the lies of this campaign. Would be interested to see just ho many people voted on "saving the NHS". Good old Nigel took him what an hour to reveal it was all a lie.

[Rob]

1 hour ago, mhcoins said:

Good to see the Leave campaign have already started to reveal the lies of this campaign. Would be interested to see just ho many people voted on "saving the NHS". Good old Nigel took him what an hour to reveal it was all a lie.

It was the lies peddled by both sides that made people sit back and form their own opinion of the EU. A campaign of fear doesn't work. Negative campaigning has been shown time and again not to work. Elections are won by giving hope - something that Remain could not be accused of offering. However right or wrong the Leave message, it did offer hope to those who felt ignored by Westminster.

The hard work starts as of today

Edited June 24, 2016 by Rob

[mhcoins]

51 minutes ago, Rob said:

It was the lies peddled by both sides that made people sit back and form their own opinion of the EU. A campaign of fear doesn't work. Negative campaigning has been shown time and again not to work. Elections are won by giving hope - something that Remain could not be accused of offering. However right or wrong the Leave message, it did offer hope to those who felt ignored by Westminster.

The hard work starts as of today

I agree both side would have made promises that cant be fulfilled but the not everyone sat back and decided sensibly. Votes would have been cast on such small details like the NHS, and IMO the use of "Saving the NHS" with the extra £350m per week saved would have definitely swayed enough voters to make it a majority, and for me thats was an appalling lie.

Also just read within 3 hours the UK Economy lost $350 Billion Pounds, the exquivilant of what about 40 years of EU contributions  

[azda]

All these MPs peddle lies to get elected, its nothing new, same thing happened during the independence vote in Scotland, same again in the General election. What does matter now is how to unite a nation which is split between in and out, how does the UK move forward. It will be an uncertain time during the next few months, but what i will say @mhcoins is that the stock markets rose yesterday on the thought that the UK will stay, where they got their info from i've no idea, but the £ has certainly dropped against the $, not seen anything yet against the euro though....

Who will steady the ship now is the next question with Cameron resigning

[TomGoodheart]

I just think it's shit that my daughter's generation will have to deal with the fall-out of this when they didn't vote for it.  The old fogeys swung it.

HOW AGES VOTED (YouGov poll) 18-24: 75% Remain 25-49: 56% Remain 50-64: 44% Remain 65+: 39% Remain

 

As for my view .. well, let's just say I'm unlikely to be buying any coins from overseas for a few months.

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by TomGoodheart

[azda]

I might be able to afford buying from British auction houses now, there is an upside

[Gary1000]

46 minutes ago, azda said:

All these MPs peddle lies to get elected, its nothing new, same thing happened during the independence vote in Scotland, same again in the General election. What does matter now is how to unite a nation which is split between in and out, how does the UK move forward. It will be an uncertain time during the next few months, but what i will say @mhcoins is that the stock markets rose yesterday on the thought that the UK will stay, where they got their info from i've no idea, but the £ has certainly dropped against the $, not seen anything yet against the euro though....

Who will steady the ship now is the next question with Cameron resigning

The euro was at 1.25 when I looked earlier.

My 84 year old mum is very pro exit, she can remember the war and is convinced that the Germans are taking over.

[Gary1000]

1 hour ago, mhcoins said:

I agree both side would have made promises that cant be fulfilled but the not everyone sat back and decided sensibly. Votes would have been cast on such small details like the NHS, and IMO the use of "Saving the NHS" with the extra £350m per week saved would have definitely swayed enough voters to make it a majority, and for me thats was an appalling lie.

Also just read within 3 hours the UK Economy lost $350 Billion Pounds, the exquivilant of what about 40 years of EU contributions  

Farage has already admitted on TV this morning that number was a mistake.

[Rob]

In our house we had 2 kids vote for out and 2 for remain. I was out and the wife wasn't eligible. So essentially a broad reflection of the national vote. Everybody thought we would vote to remain in.

The split within England will heal quickly IMO as the issue was not along party lines. Scotland is an unknown, as although there are calls for a second referendum, there is no forward vision of the EU they might vote to rejoin. I think it is quite possible that another country will vote to leave before they could apply as an independent country.

If the EU had remained a trading area instead of a socio-political experiment carried out with no mandate, the result would likely have been different.

[Colin G.]

45 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

I just think it's shit that my daughter's generation will have to deal with the fall-out of this when they didn't vote for it. 

Is that any different to those of us who have never had a say about membership until now, or dealing with a governing party who you did not vote for? If anything this should encourage the younger generation to realise that democracy actually works and that if they can get enough support for a change in the future it has the possibility of becoming a reality.

It was nice to actually have a vote that counted 

[Gary1000]

I see the knives are out for Corbin now. It's all coming home to roost.

[Rob]

I would be quite happy to see a Swiss style constitution, though the few Swiss nationals I know say it's a right pain having so many votes. Very interesting times.

[Rob]

Just now, Gary1000 said:

I see the knives are out for Corbin now. It's all coming home to roost.

As someone who has spent most of his life taking an anti-EU stance, his support for remain gave him an unpalatable choice. He could have stayed true to his principles.

[jaggy]

The vote is what it is. The question is what are the next steps? In my opinion - and once the dust has settled - the EU are going to come back with a better offer to try to keep the UK in.

This is a wake-up call for the E.U. elite. However, there have been many such calls in recent years, yet nothing seems to happen; Brussels appears impervious to the dissent. The E.U. system desperately needs reform but has shown little inclination in that direction. Perhaps this is the kick in the 'proverbials' that it needs. And let's not forget that the UK is not the most Euro-sceptic country. France, the Netherlands and Italy are out there too.

A reformed EU and a better deal for the UK could be something that the electorate can accept. The EU has form for renegotiating and coming back for a second vote. They have done that with both Denmark and Ireland in the past. That may be the reason that nobody is in a hurry to invoke Article 50.

[Gary1000]

Oh well looks like the first 2000 jobs are on the move to Dublin or Frankfurt.