EU referendum - in or out?

[Rob]

Yes, a true orator, but also the last to attempt building an empire through conquest which is why Europe will not wage war on itself, or at least the main central players responsible for the past 1000 years of conflict won't.

Britain is leaving, not taking over the EU.

[PWA 1967]

Cant download the video and a ........

Hope your not saying his views were correct ?.

[ChKy]

2 minutes ago, Rob said:

Yes, a true orator, but also the last to attempt building an empire through conquest which is why Europe will not wage war on itself, or at least the main central players responsible for the past 1000 years of conflict won't.

Britain is leaving, not taking over the EU.

The only thing I try to say is, that be careful with Farage and do not trust him. He plays his own dirty game in my oppinion.

3 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Cant download the video and a ........

Hope your not saying his views were correct ?.

The Hitler-Video is for comparison of rhetorical methods only.

[Rob]

Try herding cats. It's easier than leading the British people down a single route.

[ChKy]

politicians may rule easier w/o people...

[Rob]

10 minutes ago, ChKy said:

politicians may rule easier w/o people...

A truer word was never said and lies at the crux of our collective disagreement

[Michael-Roo]

 

ChKy, don't worry, you make your point clearly and succinctly. The majority of decent UK people think as you do.

[scott]

for all this brexit stuff,

Jean-Claude Juncker telling us to get on with it.. what can he do if we don't activate Article 50?

 

[ChKy]

4 hours ago, scott said:

for all this brexit stuff,

Jean-Claude Juncker telling us to get on with it.. what can he do if we don't activate Article 50?

 

He can do nothing. As long your country does not activate article 50 and the UK behaves like a full member of the Union nothing will happen...

By heart I wish things will happen like this.

Still everyone of us has to deal and argue against right wing populism (extreme left wing as well of course). Extremism is a bad thing in all cases.

[azda]

1 hour ago, ChKy said:

He can do nothing. As long your country does not activate article 50 and the UK behaves like a full member of the Union nothing will happen...

By heart I wish things will happen like this.

Still everyone of us has to deal and argue against right wing populism (extreme left wing as well of course). Extremism is a bad thing in all cases.

But, to go against the vote of the country would be political suicide, with big Dave stepping down anyway he could do so i suppose and leave the next PM with a clean slate, but i think that scenario is highly doubtful meaning article 50 will be activated, anyone know how long they can wait before activating it? Perhaps they are waiting for the new Conservative leader to be chosen?

[Rob]

They said they were waiting for Cameron's successor to be chosen, which will happen in early September.

A lot of balls in the air at the moment. As has been mentioned before, there is a chance of a second referendum, but it would have to be on somewhat different terms of reference to the one just passed because that ship has sailed. An EU style 'ask them again until you get the right answer' will not work and is only likely to harden resolve.

All parties agree that a sensible compromise has to be reached in terms of our relationship going forward. You might hear the politicians playing hardball for their respective audiences, but economic reality will eventually give commerce a middle path. Ultimately all national politicians are on the receiving end of voter displeasure, even if the Commission is insulated from it, so if there is sufficient upheaval within a significant number of EU nations (which must include Germany as the de-facto leader of the EU), this would provide the stimulus for a change in Brussels.

People in business and their markets don't like uncertainty, but will adapt to whatever situation is thrown up as has happened for millennia. As one businessman said to me before the referendum, we need to arrange currency cover going forward. Invoiced in dollars and holding pounds requires a hedge - we are traders, not speculators. And so the business was prepared for any fallout.

[ChKy]

15 minutes ago, Rob said:

 [...] Germany as the de-facto leader of the EU [...]

well... Germans do not like to hear that we are paymaster, not drill sergeant...

[ChKy]

1 hour ago, azda said:

But, to go against the vote of the country would be political suicide, with big Dave stepping down anyway he could do so i suppose and leave the next PM with a clean slate, but i think that scenario is highly doubtful meaning article 50 will be activated, anyone know how long they can wait before activating it? Perhaps they are waiting for the new Conservative leader to be chosen?

depends on the lateron oppinion of the country whether the assumption made prior vote is still valid & sufficient enough...

[Colin G.]

Given the political situation in the country, no-one in the political classes would be willing to turn back on that referendum decision unless they wanted to start civil unrest....it would lead to chaos in my opinion. As others have said there could well be another referendum but it would have to be on different terms, but I think even that will get some form of backlash......but if you can get a healthy majority behind it things would soon settle down.

[mhcoins]

Aren't most British Laws (made since the 70's) intertwined with the EU, now we are leaving i presume all these laws will need rewriting. The likelihood of leaving after the set 2 year period is 0% in my eyes, going to ramble on much longer 

Much simpler in times gone by, only took England 3 months to become a commonwealth after Charles I was executed 

 

 

[Colin G.]

Are you suggesting we kill the Queen to speed things up 

[mhcoins]

Pretty certain thats what this man would have in mind

[Colin G.]

We were told throughout the campaign that virtually no laws were made by the EU that affected us....it should be a breeze 

 

 

[mhcoins]

From my understanding many British laws such as the "Good Friday" agreement includes provisions based on the European Court of Human Rights, all of these are going to require re-writing, in turn will consume years of parliamentary time, divert precious public resources to battalions of lawyers, and jeopardise the effective governance of our country.

[Colin G.]

It was never going to be a straightforward separation, and I agree it will probably be a time consuming act that will direct resources elsewhere and will cost the taxpayer.

It will be a good time to be a lawyer .....actually is there ever a bad time to be a lawyer?

[Rob]

43 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

Aren't most British Laws (made since the 70's) intertwined with the EU, now we are leaving i presume all these laws will need rewriting. The likelihood of leaving after the set 2 year period is 0% in my eyes, going to ramble on much longer 

Much simpler in times gone by, only took England 3 months to become a commonwealth after Charles I was executed 

 

 

As ChKy said, politics is easy without people. After the Civil War we hadn't even got as far as Rotten Boroughs in terms of the electorate. Only declarations of war are sufficient to get politicians off their backsides without prevarication.

[jaggy]

The EU and the ECHR are two different things and there is no institutional link between them. The ECHR is the judicial body of the Council of Europe. The UK can continue to recognise the ECHR despite no longer being a member of the EU. 

[Rob]

1 hour ago, ChKy said:

well... Germans do not like to hear that we are paymaster, not drill sergeant...

Virtually nobody believes Germany would return to its military dominance, but it would be naive to suggest that they are not the strongest country economically and by extension the country with the largest responsibility to ensure stability within the EU. It needs to cast off its cloak of guilt and act as a true leader amongst equals. In Angela Merkel you've got the only true national Leader in the EU, and no, I don't believe for one minute that she is going to advocate invading Poland.

[jaggy]

Truth is that Germany dominates the EU both politically and economically. However, if the UK does exit the EU, that will be damaging for Germany. In many respects, the EU and the UK were alike in terms of their economic outlook and, between them, both essentially funded the EU. With Britain gone, it will be up to Germany to fund the EU and it will be up to Germany to deal with a political reality whereby most of the other EU countries are more interested in redistributing Germany's wealth to themselves than in actually contributing to the economic prosperity of the bloc.

Even northern European countries don't contribute that much. Belgium benefits hugely from having the EU bureaucracy while both Luxembourg, Ireland and the Netherlands are only competitive by offering huge tax breaks to multinationals that undercut their European 'partners'. Harmonise taxes and watch that lot squeal.

Frankly, the best thing for Germany is to cut a deal which keeps the UK in. However, I'm not sure that Germany has the political confidence to actually bring the rest of the EU countries into line.

[DaveG38]

1 hour ago, mhcoins said:

From my understanding many British laws such as the "Good Friday" agreement includes provisions based on the European Court of Human Rights, all of these are going to require re-writing, in turn will consume years of parliamentary time, divert precious public resources to battalions of lawyers, and jeopardise the effective governance of our country.

 

2 hours ago, mhcoins said:

Aren't most British Laws (made since the 70's) intertwined with the EU, now we are leaving i presume all these laws will need rewriting. The likelihood of leaving after the set 2 year period is 0% in my eyes, going to ramble on much longer 

Much simpler in times gone by, only took England 3 months to become a commonwealth after Charles I was executed 

 

 

What you say about English law and the EU is correct. However, even after we have left there is no need to have changed all the laws enacted since 1973, during the two year leaving period, for the simple reason that not all laws will need amending. Existing laws can stay on the statute book if we atre satisfied with them, until such time as we require change to be made in that area, based on reasons of our own policy.