MS 64?

[ozjohn]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1929-HALFCROWN-NGC-MS64-PLUS-HIGHEST-GRADE-POP-1-0-GREAT-BRITAIN-/182008992738?hash=item2a6094d3e2:g:70UAAOSwa-dWoSSM

How does a coin like this be graded at MS64 ? The reverse is not bad as far as you can see from the out of focus photograph but the obverse leaves a lot to be desired. Some wear on the earlobe several digs all over the sovereign's effigy especially on the beard, nose, neck and forehead also general scuffs in the field. The price of GBP 100 is also on the heavy side for an UNC 1929 halfcrown. Just goes to show buy the coin not the NGC etc. grading.

[Rob]

A few too many bagmarks for my liking. The price is irrelevant as nobody is compelled to buy and should anyone want one, it would not be too difficult to find another in similar condition for half the price.

[Paulus]

Good God no, what does MS 64+ mean anyway, 64.5?? Look at the wear to the ear, moustache, beard, on the in-focus pic ... more like NEF on the obv from that pic

[Nonmortuus]

To be fair to the seller I just had an upgrade off him graded as NGC MS63 for an extremely good price:

 

[Paulus]

Not blaming the seller at all, certainly questioning the TPG grading! (and the price for yours was just silly! )

Edited February 12, 2016 by Paulus

[Nonmortuus]

Oh for sure Paul, I should have said I agree with ozjohn As we discussed around that 1925 Halfcrown NGC grading seems to be off at times!

[VickySilver]

I think they may have gotten carried away by the reverse - from the in-slab and slightly less closeup photo it looks to have very nice lustre of a type sometimes known as "hard lustre". I really don't see wear on the obverse as much as bagmarking and a bit of softer strike in the usual areas. I think I could see it as a 63 if that self-same lustre is as good as it hints at.

My understanding of the "plus" grade is that it is mainly based on aesthetics like lustre, and strike (which this seems IMO not to have).

[jacinbox]

64 very generous indeed

[Mynki]

On 2/11/2016 at 11:59 PM, Rob said:

A few too many bagmarks for my liking. The price is irrelevant as nobody is compelled to buy and should anyone want one, it would not be too difficult to find another in similar condition for half the price.

I have to agree here. I've noticed a few 'higher grade' coins looking very expensive on ebay. 

Buyers can always message the seller and make an offer. Being polite, respectful and giving reasons why your offer is what it is can only help. If they're unhappy with an offer they can just say no etc. 

[mhcoins]

Doesn't look MS64 but difficult to judge from the photos. Even after a few years of handling slabbed coins its still a lottery when grading what they will come out as. Not a particularly rare coin and not to sure why someone would submit it for grading. Would cost around £25 to grade and with this type unless it was MS66 - 67 its not really going to add value

[brg5658]

Two comments.

1)  I'm not defending NGC, but it's hard to make any good judgment call of the grade from pictures like that. I will say that MS64 isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the coin.  It is certainly UNC, and MS63/64 are the most commonly assigned grades to UNC coins with no large or obtrusive gashes, rim dings, bag marks, etc.  You may also note that in the USA grading system, a full/strong strike is not a requirement at grades below MS65.  This is philosophically counter to the way that UK collectors grade UNC coins.  From what I can see in the pictures, I don't see anything that would necessarily bring this coin to below the MS63/64 range.  Lastly, NGC is an opinion -- nobody says you have to like it.

2)  The price is irrelevant, as it is an asking price not a sold price.  People can ask whatever they darn well please for their coins.  This one is high by my standards, but it's easy enough for me not to click on the "Buy it Now" button.  

[John Kamps]

Third Party Slabbing is an American invention. I find it entertaining, when lets say a Victoria YH Shield sovereign is graded as MS-65 (meaning GEM BU) comes up at Heritage Auctions. Everyone goes gaga, and bidding extends triple estimate....

Same coin, is later offered by Baldwins, described as a GOOD EF/slabbed as a MS-65.....

 

Hammered material is even worst, Edward III Calais Noble, slabbed as MS-64/ now in Kunker auction, they grade it EF(Vorz)

Slabbed coins are very over graded. That is why I get my material from Europe/UK where it is much stricter in grading.

John

[jaggy]

I will just make a few comments here.

First, the grade given by the TPG is what it is and the coin will sell at that grade in the USA.

Second, it is up to each collector/buyer to look at the coin and decide what they are willing to pay based on how the coin looks as well as all the other usual factors. If they are wiling to blindly follow the TPG grade then that is up to them.

Third, Heritage - and a slabbed coin - is not necessarily more expensive than an equivalent raw coin in a European auction. My 1561 slabbed sixpence cost less than half what a very similar coin cost at DNW just a little bit earlier. I regularly buy slabbed coins at Heritage at very good prices. If the bidding gets silly then I don't take part. Same for bidding at DNW or Spink.

Fourth, in Europe, grading is very subjective and differs from one auction house to another. In my experience, 'assigned' grades are not necessarily stricter in Europe than in the USA. That is why it is so important for the collector to form his/her own opinion.

 

[brg5658]

On 3/10/2016 at 6:38 AM, John Kamps said:

Third Party Slabbing is an American invention. I find it entertaining, when lets say a Victoria YH Shield sovereign is graded as MS-65 (meaning GEM BU) comes up at Heritage Auctions. Everyone goes gaga, and bidding extends triple estimate....

Same coin, is later offered by Baldwins, described as a GOOD EF/slabbed as a MS-65.....

 

Hammered material is even worst, Edward III Calais Noble, slabbed as MS-64/ now in Kunker auction, they grade it EF(Vorz)

Slabbed coins are very over graded. That is why I get my material from Europe/UK where it is much stricter in grading.

John

It's not a matter of "stricter" or "looser" -- you're making apples to oranges comparisons.  The US and UK use two completely different grading scales, period.  Of course they don't "map" to one another -- as they were developed independently and have always been different.