LCA March

[Colin G.]

12 hours ago, davidrj said:

Think I need to buy a lottery ticket this weekend!

That 1879 with a "space shuttle" is one I've not seen before

Very forward thinking by the die sinker.....creating a space shuttle in 1879 

[Prax]

20 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Not having collected pennies at the time ,were a lot bought by the same few people or in your opinion were there still a lot of collectors as today or more.

I would be interested if coins were bought by people who you still see ,alternatively have really good collections and not prepared to pay over the odds for the odd one.

Its a wide open question ,but do you still see the same collectors from ten years ago ?.

 

Having been active both in 2002 and in 2013 I think I can paint a picture of what the penny market was like about 15 years back. As I have mentioned previously the market then was very buoyant. The reason for this is simple you had far too many buyers with deep pockets then. We still have many buyers but I am of the opinion that they are not as many nuts (penny freaks) as there used to be in the early 2000s especially the ones that did not care too much about splashing out. Tony C put together an impressive collection in less than a decade and he could not have done it if he were bargain hunting. Crocker, Broothy, Workman, Bamford, Davies, Morgan and Charlie were just some of the names associated with pennies in those days. So, few people bought the lot, the rest had to keep looking. Let me give you an example when (a forum member’s) 1933 penny came up for sale I was among the many buyers trying to raise the 50k that was the initial asking price. I went to my bank to have my house re mortgaged to raise the 50k and by the time I had an agreement (within days) the asking price was 75k because the seller had offers in that region. I was not even in touch with the seller then, the news was through secondary sources. I am still in touch with the veterans, Davies in particular, but they have all got a pretty complete set (in high grades apart from the obvious 1933, 1952, 1954 or 1864 crosslet in unc) so many of these buyers are hardly interested in what comes to the market these days. If one of those true rarities comes to the market then I am sure we will witness carnage. Further in the last 10 years many major penny collections have come to the market (Alderney, Workman, Crocker, Bamford, Forest Park, ….). There is enough material for the second tier collector to be interested but nothing for the big boys. The last big penny to hit the market was the 1827 CGS 80 coin acquired by Boothy(?); and Davies who has a better specimen was the under-bidder. I also feel that we will not see another collection like the Gerald Jackson collection - mules in MS 64 RB, 1882 no H in 64 RB. That was a once in a lifetime opportunity that hardly any of us were interested in due to the poor quality of photographs. Re the Els collection I am hoping the seller gets a fair price but I am not too sure the current penny market is in the bull region.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Prax

[PWA 1967]

Thanks Prax.

Not sure about Boothy having .......purchased the 1827...... or even Davies being the under bidder.

That is not really important.

Your post is interesting and thank you again 

Good luck on any bids you might make.

[Prax]

Speaking to Davies it looked like Boothy booked it. We don't know who the buyer was, but Davies was definitely the under-bidder I was sat next to him with Semra on the phone. If I remember correctly Steve mentioned "this is off to Scotland then". PM me if you know who the buyer was.

Good luck with the Els collection. Anything that you really fancy?

Edited February 11, 2016 by Prax

[PWA 1967]

To be honest....and i am being 

A couple i will buy ,prepared to pay well over the odds.

The proofs dont do anything for me ...so i am out.

If i bought one proof would then be spending time and money looking for all of them 

Thats about it really .

 

Pete.

 

[alfnail]

Lot 2462 at the March Auction has prompted me to write.

I reference Page 93 of Gouby’s 2009 book in which he documents type 1898Aa (10.5 teeth) and 1898B (11 teeth).

My understanding is that his type ‘B’ was assigned because of the different style of the second numeral 8. Had it not been for this different style of numeral 8 then he would have assigned a wider 11 teeth date spacing as 1898Ab, in the same manner as he has done for many other years in his book.

The style of the second 8 on his 1898B, where the “bisect lines – align at the centre” he says is scarce. My experience is that this Style B type of 8 is only seen on the Widow Head (1895-1901) series in 1898. I think, however, that it is always seen on the Bun Heads up until 1894. I would be interested to find out if other members have different findings.

Attached is a reference picture showing the two different types of 8, both taken from the same 1898 penny in my own collection.

As far as Lot 2462 is concerned it looks to me as though the date width has been correctly identified as 11 teeth, but the second numeral 8 is NOT the scarce Gouby B type.

[secret santa]

Absolutely right, Ian, in every detail.

[jaggy]

I shall not be bidding at LCA this auction. There is simply too much good quality material at Heritage and DNW so I shall be focusing my efforts there. 

[Nordle11]

Regarding lot 2466 - the milled edge penny, I thought I remembered reading in Freeman somewhere that any milled edge coins are post mint alterations, but after scanning the book I just can't find where I read that. Can anyone remember an excerpt to this effect, maybe it wasn't Freeman but I'm sure I read it somewhere.

[PWA 1967]

19 hours ago, Prax said:

Speaking to Davies it looked like Boothy booked it. We don't know who the buyer was, but Davies was definitely the under-bidder I was sat next to him with Semra on the phone. If I remember correctly Steve mentioned "this is off to Scotland then". PM me if you know who the buyer was.

Good luck with the Els collection. Anything that you really fancy?

Again cant get rid of this................

Matt.

Gary schindler will point you to the thread on this forum or help.

He has a couple.

Pete

[davidrj]

27 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Regarding lot 2466 - the milled edge penny, I thought I remembered reading in Freeman somewhere that any milled edge coins are post mint alterations, but after scanning the book I just can't find where I read that. Can anyone remember an excerpt to this effect, maybe it wasn't Freeman but I'm sure I read it somewhere.

He mentions several in his original Bronze Penny book, but I think scanning electron microscopy of known specimens had them all as post mint damage. I remember finding a veil head penny with milled edge as a kid, probably about 1960, everyone told me it was a fake, so it was probably spent ? Been looking for another ever since

[Nordle11]

So the jury is out then.

[Mr T]

4 hours ago, Nordle11 said:

Regarding lot 2466 - the milled edge penny, I thought I remembered reading in Freeman somewhere that any milled edge coins are post mint alterations, but after scanning the book I just can't find where I read that. Can anyone remember an excerpt to this effect, maybe it wasn't Freeman but I'm sure I read it somewhere.

Yes I remember reading it somewhere too - they were definitely in his first book but not in his latest edition.

[1949threepence]

5 hours ago, Nordle11 said:

Regarding lot 2466 - the milled edge penny, I thought I remembered reading in Freeman somewhere that any milled edge coins are post mint alterations, but after scanning the book I just can't find where I read that. Can anyone remember an excerpt to this effect, maybe it wasn't Freeman but I'm sure I read it somewhere.

Matt, I've got the 1985 edition.

At page 19, MF writes the following:-

Quote

 

"Since the last edition was published, the Royal Mint has obtained an electron microscope whic enabled the conclusion to be reached that all bronze with grained (milled) edges had received them after leaving the mint: and that the farthing dated '1889' had similarly been altered from one issued with the date '1888'. In view of this, these coins are omitted from the present edition"   

 

Hope this helps.

[Nordle11]

Legend, I've also got the 1985 and must've skimmed over that last part 2 or 3 times without noticing it. I was looking for the word milled as well, god knows why I missed it all those times. That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks Mike  (and thanks for typing it out too )

 

[1949threepence]

5 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Legend, I've also got the 1985 and must've skimmed over that last part 2 or 3 times without noticing it. I was looking for the word milled as well, god knows why I missed it all those times. That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks Mike  (and thanks for typing it out too )

 

Always happy to help, Matt 

[1949threepence]

On 11/02/2016 at 9:08 PM, PWA 1967 said:

To be honest....and i am being 

A couple i will buy ,prepared to pay well over the odds.

The proofs dont do anything for me ...so i am out.

If i bought one proof would then be spending time and money looking for all of them 

Thats about it really .

 

Pete.

 

I'm bidding on four - one of them a proof 

[1949threepence]

On 2/11/2016 at 1:45 AM, davidrj said:

Think I need to buy a lottery ticket this weekend!

That 1879 with a "space shuttle" is one I've not seen before

Although it looks like a die fault, David. Albeit in a very interesting place. 

[secret santa]

I've found out this afternoon that the recent winner of the lottery that finally came forward to claim his £32 million recently is a guy who who I used to play cricket with for years. I shall be sending him a Friend Request shortly and I'm sure he'll buy the entire Elstree Collection for an old friend..................................

[PWA 1967]

Think you will find if he has any sense he has gone...........

[secret santa]

I see that the owner of the Elstree Collection has been revealed as David Reissner - I should have guessed as he and I met several times at Croydon & London auctions and battled over the same coins many times ! Very nice chap.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

I see that the owner of the Elstree Collection has been revealed as David Reissner - I should have guessed as he and I met several times at Croydon & London auctions and battled over the same coins many times ! Very nice chap.

Yes, I had an e mail from LCA today headed up "The David Reissner collection of pennies" - for a brief moment I thought it was a different collection to the Elstree. .  

[Nordle11]

So was that purposeful do you think? 

[Sword]

41 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

So was that purposeful do you think? 

I too wonder why he wanted to keep his identity secret in the first place. If I ever accumulate a nice collection, I certainly want it to be named after me when I eventually dispose of it.

[1949threepence]

1 hour ago, Nordle11 said:

So was that purposeful do you think? 

Not sure.

Maybe he was a bit reluctant to reveal his true identity at first, but later decided it would be the best thing to do.