Martinminerva

Where does this seller get all his pennies and varieties from, I wonder?? Like many on this forum, I guess, I have seen the sheer number and scope of his coins over the last couple of years and it is simply astonishing how he keeps turning up the rare types of penny in particular! He sure isn't buying them on eBay! Given too English is not this seller's first language, fair do's that he can research all the subtleties and nuances in Freeman or Gouby. I'm a bit jealous of his "magical penny tree" to misquote our beloved PM!!

Thanks indeed, Bernie. So, is it only definitely Gouby obverse A from the match of dies? Is there a way of telling Gouby A from B on a coin as worn as this?

Yes, very rare Freeman obverse 1* with thick rim, angled eye etc, but can anyone tell which of the Gouby sub-varieties it is, or are both sides just too worn to be sure? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282904508372?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649 Thanks for any info.

No. It's F22, 4+D and very common. You can just make out what's left of the LCW below the shield.

Apart, that is, I guess from the 1953 plastic set at £14 and the "de luxe" specimen set at £15 ! You'd be annoyed now if you paid that for those in 1969. Look what else cost a similar amount then and compare to values now!! 1743 VF shilling for me, I think! Did anyone really pay those sums for plastic sets in 1969 ?

Just seen this on eBay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1841-halfcrown/183076706631?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Both reverse and particularly obverse are completely "wrong" - bust, date numerals, legend font. I believe it is yet another of these replicas that are all over the numismatic world, yet worry that someone is going to get seriously burnt. Bids are already well over £300. Do members concur? There is also a genuine, slabbed one, on the site Buy it Now for £3900, which backs up my opinion. See https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-1841-HALFCROWN-VICTORIA-349/222843579237?hash=item33e2832b65:g:3fYAAOSwsm1ZvnU4 Hope no-one here is bidding on the replica one!!

Is the digit '1' incuse, or raised? If incuse, it is just likely to have been doctored, albeit skilfully. If it is raised, I think it becomes a very interesting piece as the die would have had to have had it engraved on it. Unless it is another of those Chinese knock-offs along the lines of the Kew or lines-over-face Olympic swimmer "replicas"...!

It is die pair 7+H from Freeman's book, with the H under date for a Heaton mint. One of the most common pairs, I'm afraid...

Definitely obverse 2 : I of DEI to bead.

The Latin more correctly translates as "to be feared from every side". Timenda is a gerundive (anyone remember them from their schooldays?!) which conveys a sense of obligation. Sorry... Classics teacher talking here!

It has been relisted, I see, item number:282668781681 but it is still £575. Still way too much, I feel? What might its actual value be? I know - whatever someone is prepared to pay - but how much is that?!

This is an example of a fairly common mint mis-strike: the blank from which the coin is struck has not fully settled into the collar that locates it between the dies (and which being grooved, also imparts the milling to the edge as the coin is squeezed between the dies). As such the bit of the blank that protrudes not only misses out on the milling, but can also "overflow" wider than the rest of the coin when pressure is applied with no collar to retain it, which sounds exactly like your description in the original post. An interesting curiosity, but of no real value, I'm afraid, but hope it helps answer your question.

It certainly is a mule, and in addition it is in smashing condition. Just shows that there are more of these rarities out there somewhere! Nice find!

I agree. The more numerous and smaller border beads on the reverse proves it has to date post-1866, according to the Davies die identifiers in his British Silver Coins book, plus the obverse too has to be a later type as it is in lower relief. I suspect either accidental damage or else someone "tinkering" with the date to produce a curiosity.

I agree. With the various edge and dig problems, it's only a Good Fine for me - albeit a nice colour. But it is certainly genuine. Value though only £100 tops for me; if you've got two hundred spare, you could get a much nicer one, I feel.

Good idea, but a seller has the choice about whether to publish enquiries on their listing or not - it is not automatic, so unfortunately a dodgy seller won't of course pay any attention to such queries.

A low grade one of these has just been listed on eBay, item number 282570051312 It does seem to be a very rare variety; I have only seen a couple myself.

I see one of these DNW groats (the slightly less good one, on the left) has now turned up on eBay, item 272728514017, but at £595 buy it now, I'm not convinced it will find a buyer??

Sold for £700 the pair hammer price. Anyone on the forum buy them??

Two undoubtedly currency 1853 groats coming up in next DNW sale on 14th June ! Both have the "curly" 5 and the larger 3.

I disagree! Given it is only recorded thus far in the Coincraft catalogue (and I don't think that has been printed for over a decade now!!), leaving it on here is a better way of recording it until it gets taken on board by eg. Spink, ESC, Collectors Coins of GB or wherever! Good to spread knowledge!

Have now found the one on the DNW archive, and post pics below. This too is actually the small date reverse. It is not the overdate, but there is a trace of doubling at the top of the 8. Checking out my own examples, they are all of the same reverse die, with the trace of doubling, so not a new variety but one that I have only seen recorded in Coincraft, and only a handful at that. Perhaps now it should be recorded more mainstream??

Gets a mention in the Coincraft catalogue, but doesn't distinguish reverse dies. I myself have a couple of these, and have seen three more, and all were paired with the 1848 plain, SMALL date. Haven't seen one paired with the large date and/or the overdate reverses. Does DNW not have a picture of the reverse die for their specimen?

I now attach close ups of the b in brit and the v in 1858. You can see a subtle difference in the font with a little cross-piece on the genuine b which is lacking in the v. Hope that helps!

They are gothic font v's, not b's, but with the ornate script, the large serifs on the font, and with flattening caused by wear they can look a bit like b's to the untrained eye. There are no variants of these two dates apart from various die numbers - tiny little numbers - below Victorias's bust on the 1875 piece, and so no additional rarity values. Have a trawl of eBay and you'll see exactly what I mean about the font style and the v's getting flattened to look like b's. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but hope it helps...