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Richard's pennyvarieties website has recently been updated re. 1863 open 3 reverses to include the attached types, which are additional to his excellent example at the top of this page. I believe that all 3 types have been sold as open 3's at LCA

Wonder whether, at that price, someone thought this was a weak 1875 canon ball:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCARCE-1875-Penny-VICTORIA-Bronze-1d-coin-Spink-3954-CHOICE-BU-SCARCE-833-/272836516615?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=uWO8owfz6c9AzlVeqq6TDXUE4GU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Hi Terry, I did wonder whether they may be related to teeth gaps, a bit like on this 1860 F16..........again a bit of a mystery in that location!

Gouby BP 1863 Ab - his page 46 "another new mystery looking or an answer!". Anyone had thoughts on this since his 2009 book? Die axes fairly well aligned and nothing on obverse to suggest ghosting.

Sorry Bernie didn't realise that the title of my picture (Gouby BP 1860T_Satin 19) would not appear in my earlier post; that's why I didn't bother with a picture of the reverse side........I guess that's what you would expect from a Junior Member! Anyway, here's the reverse, for those of you that did not spot the missing colon:-

An upgrade on my existing.......which has already been sold!

I expect if you were to phone LC and speak to Semra saying that you want the F96 penny at the low estimate then she will say you can have it.....assuming that's what you now want.

Interesting piece listed on ebay as a BIN, an 1874 Heaton penny displaying similar 'cock's comb' to the legendary 1862. Freeman 66, so same reverse as the 1862, but H. Think were described as flaws in the Colin Cooke 'Crocker' sale, can't see that it could be ghosting in that area, so seems coincidental similar flaw on last year of the Freeman G (Gouby g) reverse.......unless anyone has different ideas. Anyway, don't think I have seen this on any other piece 1863-1874. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1874H-Bronze-Penny-Victoria-Extra-Plumes-Higher-Grade-Similar-to-1862/401381843809?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Attached pictures of Crosslet and Plain both just taken at exact same 140 x mag, maybe aid the discussion. Apart from the tails there certainly seem to be several other 'font' differences to me e.g. distances from foot to central 'horizontal bar', particularly noticeable at RHS. Have just had quick check at LCA recent sales and that particular 'difference' seems the same on past few examples of both types. Sorry I have not got higher grade pieces, sold to pay for holidays, shoes and new tops..........not for me!

Well remembered Pete, yes I did do a study of 4's on Victorian Copper Pennies, thread starts at bottom of page 61 in the 'More Pennies' thread.

Hi Mike, the USA coin is an 1879 MS63 F96, pictures attached, cropped pictures to best utilise 500MB data limit availability. Still think I should be well pleased at price I have paid, but somehow no longer feels like a bargain! I find this variety quite difficult, and have rarely seen in high grade.

I have just received a 'bun' penny I bought at a well known USA auction site, with a hammer of $180. By the time I could get the UPS guy to hand it over I worked out that the total cost including auction fees, their excessive postage, customs charges, and additional UPS fees for helping (!) me pay the customs charges worked out at around £240 (yes £, not $). I am pleased to hear that Mike got the 1874 F69. I was watching the bun pennies getting 'passed' by so quickly that I missed this coin (which was the only one I wanted), Sorry John, enjoy the whiskey.

Thanks, found it. Interesting this piece sold at LCA 6 years ago for £460 + BP but didn't reach low estimate this June. Depressed penny market?

Does anyone happen to know whether Lot 2843 in the June auction has been sold. This is the 1860 penny with missing colon dots after the D (Gouby BP 1860T). I cannot see it in the results, so I'm guessing that it did not sell at auction, but perhaps sold afterwards. Thanks

Ebay BIN £60. Hard to find such bargains on there nowadays.

Very tempted by the sales patter...... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1897-DOT-Victoria-Penny-coin-W1897a-Fair-F147-O-NE-very-RARE-/142445773255?hash=item212a6e01c7:g:81IAAOSwYlRZMHBo

Rob, I have a CGS75 example which appears to have the same features on the 3 and 5 as shown in one of your own pictures. It also has a clear area between the top bar and top curve of the 5, whereas your own example seems to be 'filled' in that area, clogged die or grime I guess. I cannot see any flaws on the obverse anywhere on the legend, other than perhaps on the numeral 5 itself (Colin's theory). There also appears to be an additional line (highlighted in red) under the top bar of the 5 which I am thinking may reinforce the 'die crack' theory rather than being consistent with an underlying numeral 4. Hope this helps rather than confuses, I do not claim to know much about Farthings. P.S. Sorry about 'cloudy' pictures, they never come out well for me on slabbed pieces........uuuggghhh

Obverse a little rubbed perhaps!? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311872546661?ul_noapp=true

Like the humour Bernie.... Lol

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-1860-Penny-/162491735352?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=7RDoOpuZZZbfHBuDft04pscgIrw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc ...but not me.....anyone owning up to it!?

Thought you had a career in IT Richard; the first thing an IT help desk always advises is "try re-booting your PC"

Although I can no longer see the CGS population report, as I have not paid a fee, I believe the 1855 variety with the 3 dots has been documented by them as their variety PE.V1.1855.03, and described along the lines of “a raised dot giving the appearance of a 3rd colon dot after FID”. I attach a close up picture of one of my own pieces for reference. Unlike some dots which we see on Victorian pennies which are clearly unintentional, and result from flaws or specks of dirt getting into the strike, I think that the top dot near the rim on this 1855 is most likely an intentional repair to the weaker ‘clogged’ half-dot seen immediately below.….but a repair done rather badly. This would not be unreasonable as several other examples of repaired / re-struck colon dots are seen in this series. I prefer to think of features which are created by a person, either intentionally or unintentionally to be regarded as true varieties rather than random dots which are not man made. I realise that this will no convince those with an 1897 dot or 1875 canon ball penny!

Thanks for clarifying this Pete, much appreciated. I see that the one which was on ebay on a BIN for £60 sold earlier today, perhaps to someone reading this thread http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GB-Queen-Victoria-bronze-penny-1862-/162438645295?

Thanks for the picture Richard, might have guessed you would have one! I had previously thought that the Jerrams comment was referencing the type which I have pictured below, a currency piece which I have now sold. Interestingly this type with underlying 2 was also sold as a proof example at London Coins last March; the link below. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=152&searchlot=2390&searchtype=2 If John had sketched an image in his book, like he has for other over-date examples, then we would know which of these two types he was referencing.

Anyone got one of these?