Red Riley

Strangely, I've actually got one of those; collected because some of my ancestors came from that neck of the woods. I had initially thought that 'The Endeavour' was a reference to Captain Cook's barque, but on investigation it appears that that was some years before and surely Cook's locale was too far away (Whitley Bay) to be noticed on the South Coast. The boat itself looks more like a fishing smack than anything with ocean-going potential, and therefore probably has a more local significance. I'm blowed if I know what it is though.

I would not have thought that the ME penny went undetected for long. However, a higher degree of expertise would have been required in identifying this particular variety as compared to the simple process of merely clocking a date or a mintmark on such as KN pennies and 1946 or 1949 threepences. Hence the degree of 'wastage' (i.e. coins melted down) may have been greater in the '26ME. I suspect this probably holds good for other more subtle rarities.

Given that the chemical makeup of the plastic is unknown, it must be assumed to be harmful. I would therefore suggest that you remove the coins and place them somewhere where the environment is known to be benign. I think Chris might be able to help here!

Probably none, surely most issued in 1946 would have been dated 1945. As there were none issued at all in 1947, this would not add to the 1946 total. The reason for the disparity is that there is a time lag between minting coins and releasing them for circulation. Hence most threepences issued in 1946 would not only have been dated 1945 but would have been made in that year.

Taking this a little bit further, during the late 60s, very early 70s I went through literally tens of thousands of pennies, and whilst 18 and 19Hs turned up from time to time, I never saw a KN. Looking through mintage figures, the total number of pennies theoretically in circulation at the time would have been something like 3,000,000,000 (3 billion U.S.); the total number of Birmingham pennies minted in 1918-19 was just short of 9 million. I have never seen a breakdown of production between Heaton's and King's Norton, but if we assume that as few as one and a half million a year were KN mintmarked (it would hardly have been worth issuing a contract for anything less) then one coin in every 1,000 would have been a KN. Considering that I checked about a thousand a week for a period of 3 years, the only conclusion that I can draw is that by that stage all the KNs had been spirited out of circulation. By extension therefore they are still out there somewhere! Two conclusions can be drawn from this; 1) The activities of collectors can themselves have a massive impact on the actual rarity of coins; and 2) Hardly makes them rare does it?

Normal advice would be to get a book to establish what you've got, but it's such a hotch-potch, you'd need half a dozen books and even then have some left over! It may not be worth much, but such mixed collections can be great fun for kids when they come across them for the first time and can even be the spur to start a more organised collection (that's how it was for me). So my advice to you? Put it in the loft for a further generation to come along and then present it to them at an opportune moment. They will love it. Incidentally, the 1873 threepenny joey is worth about a fiver, but beyond that I would be guessing.

A genuine post now. Not surprisingly, I have taken many, many photographs over the last year or so, and although this may sound perverse logic, I have found that the quality of the coin being photographed is the most important factor in getting a decent result. Take a high grade coin, whatever the metal, well struck and with good tone, and you could get a decent image with a box Brownie. On the other hand, worn bronze/copper, with pale tone, especially the low definition obverses of George V or Edward VII are an absolute nightmare! Certain rather harsh silver tones can also cause problems. For the record, I am using a Canon EOS 400D with a Sigma 70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro lens, a convertible stand/tripod setup, subjects taken where possible in natural light (including some taken in the garden) and all edited with Photoshop. To save taking another photograph (as I have now deleted that one), check out the 1839 penny on the 'Looking for Help' thread. I think the tool for cutting out that you mentioned is actually called an 'Eliptical Marquee Tool'. I have used this tool extensively as finding an acceptable background for coins which could be removed simply at a later date was proving very problematic (everything from tablecloths to a cat litter tray had been tried). I accept that where a coin has coarse reeding, some edge detail may be lost, but for my purposes, where surface detail is more important, that is not particularly relevant. I am no way any expert, but in the vast majority of cases I have been very pleased with the outcome.

Just thought I would mention the heading for this thread ('Ive been playing with my...') is the best I've ever seen on the Predecimal message board! Sorry lads, as you were...

Wise words from Chris, but your personality will dictate the type of collection you want. Do you want say, every bronze penny from 1860 to 1970, or would you like a representative sample of many different denominations and eras? The natural collector would tend to prefer the former, but for me, the latter tends to 'float my boat' a bit more. It is probably worth mentioning that nigh on two thousand years of history from Roman (or even Celtic) can be amassed with a surprisingly small outlay and would provide a collection far more interesting to friends and family than one which consisted of a run of dates. On the other hand, many date runs can be put together quite simply and cheaply as long as you aren't too picky about having the best of everything. If you do want only high quality coins, then with care your collection will have a much higher investment potential. Only you can decide where you want to go with this, but whatever you choose, do it because that is what you want to do, not because you feel you should be collecting in a certain way. Start off by reading up on the subject (see above) and take it from there.

You could try scanning what you think are the most interesting and post the images on here. You will no doubt then get several members giving their opinions, which will at least be a start.

About 10p each. The 12H is not a rare coin, although because of its 'H' mintmark, tends to be thought of as such. In fact, those with little knowledge tended to put them aside in the 60s and 70s, as a result of which they are now among the most common of George V pennies.

Michael Gouby is your man. Try this: http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/BP%201915%20varieties.htm

No, these are both the common varieties and having polished them, they are worth no more than their metal value. In fairness, they wouldn't have been worth much more if you hadn't polished them!

If I recall correctly, you stick it on the gas ring...

32,256 are listed in my old Coin Year Book as having been produced in 1860, which is probably just the total of copper pennies that left the mint's front door that year, some of which would not have been overdates. Even so, this is still a fairly paltry figure for a circulation coin - by contrast 120,000 pennies are listed as having been issued in 1951, always considered a very scarce date and in the 20th century generally, over 100,000,000 pennies a year was not unusual.

Okay, here's the overdate. Not the greatest picture but I think it shows just about enough detail. Amazing how wonky the date is in close-up and how kind of unsophisticated the whole overdate process is when you look at it. Of course today, they just wouldn't have bothered.

Hi Bob, I've been playing around trying to reduce this image ti 150kb. Hope it works now. Like most rare coins, the 1860/59 pennies are wholly unremarkable in the flesh, even the overdate being hard to see in worn condition. If this works, I might have a stab at posting an image of merely the date, but not now, it's past my bedtime.

Not that I disbelieve you... Actually, the differences between the standard 1922 penny and the rare type on the website are extremely subtle. Your best bet is to post a picture of the penny's reverse on here. However, if the estimate of 10-15 in existence is correct, your chances of hitting the jackpot are probably approaching a million to one.

As I have said on a different topic, I haven't been around much lately but not surprisingly I would like to add a little more to this thread. The guide really is getting there, and although I hate to blow my own trumpet, I don't think you will be disappointed! Chris and I agreed at an early stage that as grading is such a contentious issue, we would get my initial draft (including pictures) checked through by a number of experts just in case I was out on a limb in any particular area. Only once that exercise had been completed would we press on to publication. As well as to inform, my personal style is to poke fun where I believe it needs poking, and from that point of view, I want this to be a very readable guide without, I hope, too much pomposity. You will also find that there are a number of areas in our current grading system with which I am far from happy and this too is tackled in the introduction. So there you are, it won't be available for Christmas, but will make a darned good Easter present!

Hi Chris, haven't been on here much lately, but your post came just at the right moment. Actually it was an 1860/59 that you sold me. You had an 1849 at the same time but I believe you sold that to another well known forum member. Can't remember who it was though.

As you have discovered, there are two varieties of 1909 penny, and one of them is relatively valuable, the rare one having the following attributes: 1) The '1' points directly to a tooth in the border; 2) The first upright of 'N' points to a gap in the border; 3) The waves in the sea are sharper. On the less worn of the two, the '1' points to a gap, so that excludes that one. The other coin is so worn that individual teeth have all but been obliterated and (3) is ultimately subjective so as Gary D implied, you may have found a rarity, but no-one will ever know, the coin is just too worn. Although they are worth little more than their metal content, anything that is 99 years old deserves a little respect. If you have any kids, give the coins to them, they may love the age thing (especially as they are 100 years old next year). If not, hey maybe one day...

So someone has cottoned on to the idea of forging the slab. Should be easy pickings since slabbed coins are aimed at investors who don't care tuppence about what's inside. I know I shouldn't, but it does make me smile...

Whilst I have obviously seen better Victorian copper pennies, in the current state of the market that represents a real bargain. The fact that you bought it from Australia makes me wonder if, like 1827s, the bulk of the mintage was transported there, only to be lost over time in the outback.

Hi Chris, Don't know whether it's just me, but there doesn't seem to be a picture of a coin on your link.