Red Riley

The London Gazette is usually pretty authoratitive but in this case I hope it has got it completely wrong as the words 'dull as ditchwater' spring to mind. What does surprise me and throws a little doubt into my mind is that over the last 50 years or more, there has been a tendency to bring the Welsh national emblems (dragon, leek) into the coinage but from the descriptions given, there is no sign of them here. I can see riots all the way from Llantwit Major to Llanddewi Brefi! Incidentally, great visualisation Hertfordian.

Bob C.

It is very difficult to tell just from photographs, but I have seen forged Gothic crowns before and own (what I hope is) the genuine article - now on the desk in front of me. 1) Not certain what has happened to the obverse, but it is mighty suspicious. Gothic crowns were not circulation coins and were generally produced to a very high standard so a poorly struck head would be extremely unusual. 2) The plain edge is much rarer than the standard 'Undecimo'. It is also the hardest part of a coin for a forger to produce. Very dodgy. 3) The lettering on a Gothic crown is crisp and noticeably flat topped. The lettering on this one is anything but, and looks distinctly wobbly in places. 4) I've just noticed that the strings on the harp are not straight, whereas those on the genuine article could have been produced with a slide rule. Conclusion: It's a dud.

Hi, welcome to the forum. I thought I would get in before Chris does (it always sounds better coming from an impartial source!) and direct you to his Collectors' Coins GB 2008 - see above or the Rotographic section on this forum. I really don't want to put you off, because metal detecting done properly can be fun, but, mainly due to the numbers produced and the effects of spending 100+ years exposed to the elements, anything you find in the ground from that particular era (with the exception of gold) is likely to be worth little more than its metal content. There are of course rare dates/varieties but the chances of finding any of those in acceptable condition are very low indeed.

I have compared your photograph with an 1863 penny in my collection. I have to say that they look pretty much identical even down to the slight distortion of the inner beading above the B. I also checked two different 1864s and an AU 1862 and to be honest there is very little difference. The lettering on Victorian bronze is often way off line - perhaps they didn't use a protractor!

The problem with Winston Churchill (and I don't begrudge him his place in history) is that Britain has a morbid fascination with the Second World War, Dunkirk Spirit, D-Day, El Alamein and all that, as if it were some kind of golden age (it wasn't if you were under the bombs in the blitz). Yes, of course we should look back with a degree of pride, but the years 1939-45 seem to dominate our historical thinking almost to the exclusion of anything else. Can't we just take our foot off of this particular gas pedal for a bit and rediscover other equally interesting periods of our history?

I would go with a series of great Britons e.g. Darwin, Brunel, Robbie Burns (to keep the Scots happy until they take their ball away). They have all appeared on British banknotes, Darwin and Brunel on the reverses of BoE notes, and Robbie Burns has been on the RBS notes since 1970, and previous to that 1961 on the British Linen Bank notes. And now Adam Smith, a Scot is on the reverse of the £20 BoE note. Actually I like those series, since they are non political, and commemorate people that made Britain great, industrially, financially etc. Aye, but the good thing about dead celebrities is that when you get fed up with them, you can change them without offending anybody. I don't think it really matters that they have already been honoured in some way and if they are skipped, we might just end up with a few second rate celebrities gracing our coinage. Pure speculation of course as it's got as much chance of happening as England winning the Football World Cup again in my lifetime. Going back more to the original point of this thread, with the accession of George VI, the reverses of the two smaller bronze coins went off in a rather different direction with the Golden Hind and the wren but since then, circulation coins have just followed tired old themes. It would be nice to see the historical/wildlife series picked up again; a few suggestions - Stonehenge, St. Paul's Cathedral (or would this look too much like the Jefferson nickel?), S S Great Britain, red deer, golden eagle...

I would go with a series of great Britons e.g. Darwin, Brunel, Robbie Burns (to keep the Scots happy until they take their ball away).

It's probably because somebody in government would have to tell her ('er... excuse me your majesty, do you mind if we replace your head on the 10p piece with a hippopotamus...?'), and politicians being the chickens they are, nobody wants to volunteer for the job. Reminds me of the piece of legislation in the 19th century which outlawed male homosexuality. It was easy enough mentioning this to Queen Victoria because the subject was covered in the bible. However, lesbianism never became illegal apparently because nobody wanted to explain it to her!

I am far from this country's biggest flag waver, but somehow I have retained the notion that a coinage works best when it reflects a country's history, heritage, legends etc. in a simple and easy to understand form. I suppose it is difficult to argue that the heraldic symbols on most of our coinage are well understood, but Britannia is recognised as a symbol of these islands throughout the world. Since the cartwheel coinage of 1797, a new version of Britannia has appeared roughly every 25 years, so we are overdue a redesign, but to lose this nigh on 2,000 year old image altogether strikes me as a shame. By comparison, the French Marianne, as close to an equivalent as one can get, has even survived the switch to a single European currency. Now it wouldn't be like me to post something on here without a hint of controversy now would it, but I just happen to believe that our coinage is blighted by having to have a portrait of the reigning monarch on the obverse. On a personal level, I really don't wish Elizabeth Windsor or her family any ill will, but can't we have something/someone else for a change? And no, I do not want a portrait of Gordon Brown instead!

Yes and no. I agree with you over the appalling Daily Mail, but I just happen to like Britannia. In fact, it's the only one of the current designs I would like to keep. Mind you if Scotland secedes from the union (as it surely will one day not that far away), the thing will probably die a natural death anyway. I don't see much point in hastening its end.

Surely there's something that can be done about this shower, they are unashamedly masquerading as part of the Royal Mint, and thereby giving the appearance of official sanction, at least to the uninitiated. Perhaps we should have a word with Watchdog.

It just looks like the die has had the 2 repunched. Whilst these are interesting, they do happen on any number of coins and are not usually valuable. I am prepared to be proved wrong though!

Hi Silver, welcome to our humble abode. The 1926 penny could be pretty scarce as they come in two different varieties, one fairly common, the other not so. Very difficult to describe without another coin for comparison, so a picture of the obverse (heads) side would help. There is also a ludicrously rare variety of 1922 penny with a slightly different reverse, but the chances of finding that are slim to zero.

I never really intended to accumulate odd coins in the way you mention in Example 2 but somehow or another, when elderly relatives have died and their belongings divied up, I seem to end up with a small bag of circulated change from the 1960s. No value at all, but when you get known as a coin collector, all sorts of junk seems to head your way. One of these, emenating from an aunt of my wife was highly individual. The bag consisted of maybe 60 items of which approximately 30 were 1937 pennies, all well used, and nothing special about any of them. The chances of this being a purely random event are millions to one, so there must have been a reason why Aunt Rachel specialised in tatty 1937 pennies. I'm blessed if I can see it though.

There are a multitude of varieties in these two years, some of which are extremely subtle and impossible to judge below say, VF so if the coins are in poor condition, you may never know! If the coins are at all photographable, you can post them up here and we'll see what we can do. That really is a magnificent sixpence by the way; in fact, so good that Spink's doesn't even give a price for it.

Actually you're probably right, all the 'buyer' ever seems to have been involved with before was selling secondhand computer games or some such nonsense. I hope no poor innocent got stung.

Yeah, I'll go along with that, the obverse if anything looks even worse. Chris, non comprong. You'll have to explain Shill Bidding to me. I think as we both know, there are a lot of people in need of the grading guide.

Come on, where is everybody? Happy New Year!

I have to say, I rather envy you Americans your current coinage as it has been stable for many a long year, whereas the oldest coin you can get in the UK is 1971 and even those are becoming scarce. Obviously Europe is even worse. As a kid there was nothing like the thrill of digging through a bank bag full of coins and finding something from the rein of either Victoria or Edward VII, a pleasure that almost nobody under the age of fifty has experienced. May well be heading off to see friends in Pensacola some time soon, so would be useful to know what theoretically I could find in my change. No rush you understand!

I think this is Sue of Ye Ole Banknote Shop. Never met her and didn't know she was a member, but very helpful in letting me use images for the grading guide.

I guess part of the answer lies in whether the coins are still capable of circulation. Are shield nickels the same size and weight as the current issue, and have they specifically been declared by Congress as non-legal currency? In Britain, the old size 5 and 10p pieces have specifically been de-monetised and by my reckoning there should be no reason why they couldn't be melted. Even if it were technically illegal, it strikes me as a victimless crime and as such it is unlikely that any charges would ever be brought. Incidentally, put a bit of iron into the mix and you get cunifer - strong, flexible and resistant to corrosion; frequently used in motor vehicle brake pipes. Not a lot of people know that!

Silver from 1816 up to 1919/20 (depends on denomination) was sterling i.e. 0.925 silver. From 1920 to 1946 the silver content was reduced to 0.500 and from 1947 the 'silver' coins were all cupro-nickel (except Maundy issues). Prior to 1816 the silver content varied but latterly sterling prevailed. Therefore, anything you dig up prior to 1947, however manky, will have some silver content and therefore some value. Forgeries do exist, but they are not as common as might be supposed and virtually everything you discover will be the real McCoy.

Welcome to the gang. Your story pretty much mirrors mine; kids and coins don't make a good partnership!

Never mind Peter, you can take her out and stuff her when you feel better!