Red Riley

Hi Perkin, Welcome to the madhouse of numismatics! There are several books on the market (some shown above) which will help you learn more about your chosen hobby, at least as far as UK coins are concerned. Foreign coins are more problematic but if you can post some images, I am sure someone, if not several people will be able to help you in their identification.

A specimen in poor condition reached over £1k on eBay recently. Illogical I know, but I guess the royal mint variety, or leastways the coin without the H, does not reach the stratosphere in terms of price simply because 1882 pennies overall are extremely common. I guess collectors generally just regard it as a variety of 1882H, but if the more common coin did not exist then yes, it would be up there with the 1933 penny...

Check out this website: http://thomas-spence-society.co.uk/index.html

There's quite a few there, and without a numbering system it's difficult to refer to them individually. In addition, as no dimensions are given, the copper coin could be a farthing or a halfpenny and some of the others could be either florins or double florins. Some people can probably tell simply from the image, but I can't. That said, the pick of the bunch appears to be the better of the two 1900 crowns which could be worth approximately £100. The 1887 crown may be worth £30 -£50 and the other 1887 coin, whatever it is, also has a reasonable value. The rest (including the scarce 1925 half crown) have a value in the range of £7-£15 each. As always, a scan does not tell you everything about a coin and these values could vary with the coin in hand.

It looks like William and Mary farthing in GF condition... on Ebay it would probably make £30 to £40.

Hi Micky, Someone has already said welcome, but take it as read from me as well. On becoming a coin collector you may be advised by other collectors to specialise your collection (i.e. concentrate on one or two denominations). Don't pay any attention to them, the joy of coin collecting is having a bit of this, a bit of that all of which adds up to a history of coins either throughout the world or (as seems likely) your home country. If you wish to specialise, you can do that years later. You might like to dabble on e-bay which personally I really enjoy. The chances of getting ripped off at the lower end of the market are negligible, the biggest risk being that the post office lose the letter! Always stick to sellers with 99% plus feedback and you should be OK. A little tip to interest other people (i.e. family and friends) in you collection is to buy the odd Roman coin. These always interest non-collectors, despite the fact that the world is groaning under the weight of the things, and as such, more common varieties can be bought for very little - an incredible amount of history for your money. Row after row of similar looking nineteenth or twentieth century coins however, will bore the less enlightened to distraction no matter how much you love them. Another piece of advice that you may hear is to buy the best coins you can afford. Good advice from a financial point of view, but initially you will not be able to afford anything other than very recent stuff in tip top condition, so for the time being just go for what you fancy. It is however always worth going for a coin with good eye appeal (i.e. no edge knocks, scratches, unsightly stains) despite being only in fine condition as these will be easier to sell on to the next batch of beginners when the time comes to upgrade your collection. Good luck!

If I can quote from the bible, I seem to recall Christ saying (apparently of a Tiberius denarius) 'render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God, what is God's'. So Christ is on the side of the poor sod at the mint that forgot to put the collar with the dollar dies. Perhaps it is some kind of divine intervention but I doubt his employers see it that way. It's an interesting argument to have with a bunch of bible-belt loonies. Watch the shotgun though.

In my experience, the problem was mostly solved by 1921 and with the exception of the 12Hs didn't seem to start until 1914. Nonetheless, the change to the modified effigy took place in 1926 with the small head follwing in 1928, presumably to cut down on the amount of care involved in avoiding the ghosting. In all honesty, I have yet to see a small head penny with any significant ghosting, some coins of George VI actually being rather worse in this regard. What is also noticeable is that the coins from 1914 to 1920 are sometimes very indistinct on both sides with 1920 being quite the worst year. I suppose it's possible that the loss of experienced staff during the first world war contibuted in no small measure to the decline in quality of the coinage, but in all honesty I can think of no modern British series that has been issued with such a low quality of workmanship as the George V penny.

Apologies for the last couple of posts. Was attempting to attach a photo of a gothic crown, but was having problems...

Streuth, now that is one ugly portrait. I was, of course, playing devil's advocate at least to some extent. Would I swap the beauty of Wyon's gothic portrait for the realism of the Isabel II effigy? Not on your Nelly! To quote the Australian art critic Robert Hughes (on the portrait represented in my avatar) - '... just looking at it makes you want to climb into the painting and have a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon'. Perhaps I wouldn't go quite so far with Wyon's portraits (perhaps I should rephrase that...), but you get my drift. One of the functions of art, be it on a canvas or a coin, is to stir a positive response in the viewer and yes, I think Wyon's portraiture does that. All things considered however, I still think I would rather meet one of Wyon's imaginary queens than the real Queen Victoria.

Streuth, now that is one ugly portrait. I was, of course, playing devil's advocate at least to some extent. Would I swap the beauty of Wyon's gothic portrait for the realism of the Isabel II effigy? Not on your Nelly! To quote the Australian art critic Robert Hughes (on the portrait represented in my avatar) - '... just looking at it makes you want to climb into the painting and have a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon'. Perhaps I wouldn't go quite so far with Wyon's portraits (perhaps I should rephrase that...), but you get my drift. One of the functions of art, be it on a canvas or a coin, is to stir a positive response in the viewer and yes, I think Wyon's portraiture does that. All things considered however, I still think I would rather meet one of Wyon's imaginary queens than the real Queen Victoria. I can't leave this thread with that awful Isabel II portrait can I? That's better.

And here is an uncirculated 1894 3d ruined by some idiot who wiped it:

Wise advice. As a matter of interest I did read an article a few years ago - I think by a well known American dealer called Halperin(?). In his view, a very high proportion of 19th century American silver coins currently in collections had been cleaned in some form or another. He went on to say that collectors from that era and before were less interested in patina than is currently the case. Silver obviously tones less readily than copper/bronze and cleaning it off is less noticeable to the naked eye. From my observations, I feel that to some extent the same applies in the UK, especially in the middle grades.

I don't want to throw cold water on the theory, but later in the century especially with the bronze pennies of 1874-79, significantly different (i.e. narrow/wide date) reverses were still being produced. By that time, the practice of inserting an 'H' to signify Heaton-produced coins had become established and so the likelihood of one or the other being produced by them is very slim, particularly as H's appear on both narrow and wide date varieties for the years 1874 and 1876.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it is faintly connected. On the few occasions that I have read Coin News, I have done pretty much what Emperor Oli does - i.e. have a quick look, and then throw it in the recycler. If one article in ten interests me then I am lucky. Problem is that my interests pretty much coincide with most others on this website - British and pre-decimal. I might be tempted to read articles about ancient or mediaeval European coins, but the latest commemorative issue from some tiny republic in the Indian Ocean with a population of 37 leaves me cold. I do not by and large network with other collectors (other than on the internet), so I may be out of touch, but are there any other magazines out there which might suit my interests more closely? If not, I think it's about time we had a word with a friendly publisher!

The F-17 in higher grades are very difficult to find and command a large premium......

Worth pointing out that the F17 is high rarity (Jerrams 50-80 known) and so certainly not worthless, cleaned or not. I would pay £60 for it. On Ebay I imagine it would fetch more.

It is not in prime condition, that's for sure and has some edge damage. But on a strict grading basis it has to be better than NVF - obverse wear in the usual places is minimal from what I can see. You may be right about the cleaning, although a lot of these early bronze coins did produce a very light tone, so without seeing etc... In conclusion it is not a valuable coin and not one you could sell simply by stating its grade. If I were to sell, I would simply post a picture and let the buyer make up their own mind.

Red, My posts must look very amateur because I know I over use exclamation marks all the time, my site is full of them!!! (oops done it again!! )(and again )

Nobody's sticking their neck out so I'll have a stab at the F17. To my mind this is GVF-NEF but would require to see the coin to firm up on it. When grading the earlier bun pennies, the touchstones are the hairline above the eye and the embroidery on the dress which wears from right to left. The reverses are a little more problematic as they tend to be quite various e.g. the shield on some coins is convex and shows wear quite readily whereas others (1860-61 and 1882-94) are quite flat and can be almost the last piece of detail on the coin to wear away. Check out Michael Gouby's 'The British Penny 1860-1970'. With regard to cleaned coins, I would always try to grade accurately and then simply say 'cleaned' if I was going to sell. By the way, it is difficult to judge the grade of the later coin from the scan, but I don't think it will be less than GVF and could be much better. If cleaned however, the value will be not more than a few pounds. Unfortunately, as you are no doubt discovering, there is no substitute for experience where grading is concerned. Can I change my mind? Have now looked in more detail at the reverse of the F17 which appears to show more wear than the obverse, so drop to VF-GVF. See how difficult it is?

You're going to wish you hadn't asked this! Despite my use of it in the previous sentence, I think you should strike the exclamation mark after 'change' in the second line; you have one later on in the paragraph and overuse of exclamation marks just doesn't look professional (sorry, but that's my opinion). Agree that the second sentence needs a little more, as it rather ends in mid air - how about adding something like: 'which can make them worth treble/quadruple/ten times/whatever their face value'. You will also need to switch the word 'colour' in the 2nd line of 2nd para. i.e. 'actual-size colour illustrations'. The only other adjustment that you could make (and this sounds picky) is to end the third paragraph after 'books' with a colon. Otherwise fine. Do I get a free copy?

I have to say that I have mixed views on William Wyon. A great engraver undoubtedly, but there was something of the politician about him. Obviously he got his big break when King George IV (a fat ugly old man) objected to Pistrucci portraying him as... a fat ugly old man. Wyan's effigy was much blander than Pistrucci's and played down the effects of ageing to the extent that the new portrait was acceptable to the eccentric and self-absorbed old king. His portrait of William IV (every bit as fat and ugly, but a much better monarch) was to my mind the best of his career, with more realism and less massaging the ego of a potty old man. His portraits of Queen Victoria however, are where his politicians instinct really comes out. There are contemporary paintings and eventually photographs of the queen which show her as being rather dumpy with virtually no chin. Now the young head portrait which Wyon executed for the coinage is a stunning portrayal of a beautiful young woman, but is it recognisably Victoria??? Clearly it was in Wyon's best interests to portray the young queen in as kind a light as possible, but was this done at the expense of accuracy? Furthermore, the bust on the gothic series has to be my all-time favourite, but would you have recognised Victoria walking down Windsor High Street? Perhaps I have maligned Wyon, as all portrait artists have to flatter their clients to some extent, if only to get paid. I just wonder if Wyon did it more than most.

Copper ore is extremely widely distributed, and although the domestic supplies had largely been worked out or abandoned as uneconomic by the start of WW2, there were ample commercial supplies in the US, Canada and Southern Africa. A surprisingly small amount of metal goes into coin production - e.g. the total amount of copper used by the Royal Mint on domestic coinage between 1860 and 1869 was only just over 2,300 tons and the amount used in WW2 would have amounted to less than one very small shipload.

For me the wear only brings it down to fine, but truly horrible and seemingly cleaned with an angle grinder. Aptly summed up by the link which includes the words '... CHARLES II FART...'

From time to time I have acquired various bronze coins which have had their natural brown toning removed (usually I would guess by small children with a tin of Duraglit). I have yet however to find a satisfactory method of naturally restarting the toning process - the best so far (but only partially succesful) was to spit on the coin and leave it on the window sill for a year. Currently I am experimenting with burying a coin in a flower tub in the garden - hardly hi-tech but it might work. Has anybody out there got a really successful method which I can pinch?