Sword

Thank you so much for sharing that.

Many thanks Rob for your expertise! Much appreciated. Is it more usual for the legend to read MAG and HIB rather than MA and HI?

I wanted to buy my first hammered coin and have decided that a Charles I halfcrown would be the best bet. A common type can be picked up at a reasonable price. The history of that period is fascinating. A halfcrown is an impressive large lump of silver too. The problem is that my knowledge of hammered coins is very limited and I am not certain about what to look for. (But then again, I will probably not get better until I have brought a few). At the end I have brought this Charles I halfcrown from the recent LCA. I like the coin because 1) it's round, 2) well centred, 3) no weak areas, 4) decent enough grade, with rather good details ( LCA graded it as VF) 5) full flan as far as I can tell. It ended up costing me £260 + juice. I am very grateful to receive any comments. Are there any problems with it? Would you grade it VF? Is the price OK? Just be frank! I noticed that there are some letters missing on the legend and think this sort of thing is rather common. Can any one tell me how that occurred. The mintmark is bell and I assume that the year is therefore 1634-5 (from Spink). The Bell mint mark is given the number 60 in spink. How was the number 60 assigned? Many thanks!

Looking at the table in the link, I do find it rather amusing that the grading terms in foreign languages can't be taken literally either. I can read very little Japanese and hope that I haven't translated too badly: Sheldon Japanese Grade My Translation AG3 収集不適品 Not suitable for collection MS63 未使用品 Goods that have never been used MS66 完全未使用品 Completely unused goods MS68 空前絶後品 Never seen before and will never see again

Most people would admire a 100+ years old circulating coin graded MS68 (or CGS equivalent) as an object of high rarity. I certainly can't see any interest for a modern proof coin wrapped in plastic moments after birth and later graded as MS70 or CGS123...

LCA stopped people from viewing the CGS photos within 2 hours of the of the OP. Too much of a coincidence to me. So it seems quite likely they got wind of it somehow. I find it strange that anyone from LCA is a reader of this forum due to the large number of frank comments regarding them though. LCA should also realise that they won't persuade more people to pay their £99 by this behaviour.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I think LCA's grading and their descriptions have gone downhill a bit in recent years. Things like hairlines often don't show up on photos and so accurate + comprehensive descriptions are so important. Having said that I have also placed a bid on their weekend auction.

I agree that it is probably best to leave it alone. It looks rather nice for its grade and the "stuff" is not distracting and has blended in rather well. If you decide to clean it, then it is the right sort of coin to experiment on and gain some experience. You don't want to attempt your first cleaning on a UNC valuable coin. (Personally, I have not attempted any cleaning myself)

NGC MS62. No wear as far as I can tell but a rather large number of contact marks and scuffs on the obverses.

It's interesting that some Edward VII coins can tone so darkly around the legend leaving the rest of the coin untoned and lustrous. Here are a couple examples of mine. They are common coins but I like the tone.

There were times previously when the main forum was dominated by heated discussions on the merits (or lack of) of TPGs. This was undoubtedly off-putting for a number of people. However, TPG discussions now take place discretely in its own sub-forum. People entering the TPG sub-forum should know what to expect. I think I have exhausted the things (both good and bad) I can say about CGS for now. But since this is the called the negative thread, I will join in the fun and add this: https://taxfreegold.co.uk/cgs-uk.biz.html

Personally, I think there is (or was!) some premium for coins in CGS holders providing the grade is high. E.g. CGS 80+ for later milled crowns and CGS 80/82+ for smaller coins. Most of us would agree with the cliche "buy the coin and not the slab". However, I think a grade on a slab does influence opinions. e.g. if a crown is graded CGS 80, many would assume it is UNC unless observations proved otherwise. The coin is somehow given the benefit of the doubt. Looking at Non's 1913 HC, I confess I can't tell from the photo how much of the loss of details in the obverse is due to wear and how much is due to weak strike. But if it has a grade CGS 75, then many people can believe it is weak strike if they have only a photo to go on. I have no reasons to think that CGS has graded the coins in this tread inaccurately. But as Paul and Azda have also pointed out, grading early George V by photos alone is just difficult. Weak strike can be mistaken for wear. With regard to my own 1911 HC, the original auction description was "UNC toning over original mint lustre". With the coin in hand, I don't think the CGS 80 grade given later on is unreasonable. CGS has annoyed me on numerous occasions by long grading times, using scratched or even cracked holders, slabbing foreign matter with the coin etc but I think their grading is generally OK. (I have always been suspicious of the grades they give to their own coins however) I do agree with Azda to some extent that LCGS / CGS slabs might be less desirable in the future. Now there is no guarantee of any kind. They have become first party grading. People are now more likely to break open their slabs and eventually the meanings of their grades can fade.

I suppose they would be flexible in this case. They have been flexible enough with slabbing rare pennies with verdigris providing the grades are low. I think either Tom or Coinery has mentioned before how would they deal with hammered coins with small flan cracks. Guess we might never find out due to the lack of hammered coins submitted to them.

The old CGS website gave a list of things they would reject a coin. These included flan flaw, flan crack, lamination, etc.

I think it is important to wipe all possible properties from photos before posting them. To be safe, I also use a camera without GPS.

Yes, you can crack the coin out and resubmit it again

Enough of the company CGS and back to George V halfcrowns. I have brought a 1911 a few years back. I had it slabbed with CGS afterwards and it got a CGS 80 grade. Interested to hear how you think it compare with the ones posted earlier.

The new grading company is exactly the same as the old company with just an extra letter added to the name. Actually, not quite the same as they now have a worse attitude.

How about this for a scam. Sign up up to be a CGS agent. Charge a very low service fee to get some business. Then do a runner with the coins! The turnaround time for CGS is 3 months plus. So you have at least 3 months to getaway because anyone suspect anything.

Actually, one has to pay a subscription of £99. Then subscribers can apply to be grading members. They are rather selective and states that " Clients who have a track record of submitting coins to the former CGS or are regular clients of London Coins auction or dealership service are likely to be approve" No riff raff then. And once they have approved your application, then you have the privilege of paying the £499 deposit upfront. Personally, I think this is just not exclusively enough. I think applicants should be proposed by a current member and seconded by another. They must be interviewed and swear their loyalty to LCGS. Seriously though, by getting rid of all their "small" customers, I think CGS coins will lose credibility. This is because a higher percentage of new slabbing is for their own LCA and so there will be more suspicion on their impartiality.

Nice to see that you have your coins back. I don't think I have been any good grading Pre 1927 George V from photos. Any tips appreciated. For example, I thought the 1919 would grade quite a bit higher than CGS65. I can believe that 1913 is high grade from the details of the crown and that the loss of details is mostly due to weak strike. But how can one tell from a photo how exactly how much is due to wear and how much is due to weak strike.

For me it depends a lot on where the carbon spot is. A small spot on the field like that one on the 1918 penny won't put me off. A spot near the rim is even less of a problem. However, I won't want a coin if there is an ugly spot on the eye or mouth of the portrait for example. To be honest, I would probably rather have a slightly lower grade coin instead! I have only ever brought one CGS coin (although I have used CGS quite a few times to slab my raw coins). On that occasion, I placed an absentee bid based on the CGS photos. Unfortunately for me, that coin has actually developed a carbon spot right next to the king's nose since it has been slabbed. Obviously, I would have never brought it if I knew it was there. Out of interest, on what ground did LCGS reject the 1918?

Looks like London Coins have realised this and the links no longer work. You get a "Permission denied. Permission denied" message. However they have also inadvertently disabled all the photos on the "Coins for Sale" section of their London Coins website by doing this. Makes no difference of course as no one want to buy at their silly CGS prices anyway. Update: London Coins have now figured out that they have disabled the photos on their own website and so the links are working again. Last chance (for what's that worth) to download any CGS photos before they disable the links again.

My guess is that they have (or will) ceased trading and have become a dormant company.