Coinery

I've sure Dave will be able to add, based loosely on book sales, but how many micro-variety collectors do you think there are out there? I'm guessing the micro-gurus, Nick, Declan, Bob, & VS, could also have some ideas based upon their sense of competition for the coins? I'm speculating here, but I'm presuming the 20th century collectors are all using the DG Bible as their reference, with it being Davies and a bit more? I personally stop at the D numbers at present, but I do wonder at the rate of expansion into the Groom field?

Grading Coins, Davies, ESC & Groom if you are looking at silver/CuNi only. Do you think ESC has anything to add to Davies in the 20thC? I haven't been won over by the micro-stuff (yet), but always take a quick scan through Groom to make sure I'm not giving any micro-rarities away, as we all know there are collectors out there looking for them!

I've just got to tell you this, as it only ever happened to me twice! Two summers running in the late seventies, as an 11 year-old, I 'helped' the local farm staff by stacking the bales into sixes...the reward...and this honestly happened...I was allowed to sit beside the tractors at lunch break and share in, and this just sounds too twee, and you'll never see the likes of it again, but I shared in cheese, bread, pickled onions, and farm cider! Unbelievable, but true! It really was the done thing back then! Now they really WERE good old Somerset days!

On G6 I'm always pleased if I can find the horizontal flick of hair, just above the ear, coming to a nice sharp triangular ridge!

Hah, allow me to expand (it was my own attempt at a pun/humour)...Dr Crippen!

You'll have run into the same problems that a lot of people face trying to get G6 as well. And that is the major Auction houses don't bother with them accept in bulk lots (so you have to be there, really), and eBay is useless for such things because, forgetting the fact the images are never good enough to decipher an EF from an UNC (at best), the postage generally makes buying them at book price a prohibitive thing, unless you are going to buy a number of coins from the same ebayer (and good luck with that). The only way, is to buy a number of coins from the same dealer [to save on post], or attend a coin fair (and turn a blind eye to fuel costs). There's no easy answer, unfortunately, as it's not like say a Victorian coin, where a rubbish image on eBay can have you speculate a VF bid, whilst you're suspecting the coin might be VF and better. With E2 & G6, if an EF arrives, when you were hoping for an UNC, you've thrown your money away, as you will never be able to sell it on and get your money back. Here's where you've just got to have a dealer who's judgement in grading you 100% trust! Nothing else will do! I was lucky and picked up a date run in UNC. They are not easy to find in high grades because dealer haven't really caught on to E11 yet. I actually managed last week to upgrade my 1955 F to gap after looking for a year or two. I did take a quick scout around the forum dealers, and certainly noted a few UNC's for sale!

In which case, you're just going to have to get an old car battery and pioneer the experiment yourself, as the only way of seeing the acid test directly is by actually undertaking the study, the results/images of which will be valued on here for certain. For what it's worth, I believe the appearance of your coin is most definitely the result of Crippen Syndrome.

You'll have run into the same problems that a lot of people face trying to get G6 as well. And that is the major Auction houses don't bother with them accept in bulk lots (so you have to be there, really), and eBay is useless for such things because, forgetting the fact the images are never good enough to decipher an EF from an UNC (at best), the postage generally makes buying them at book price a prohibitive thing, unless you are going to buy a number of coins from the same ebayer (and good luck with that). The only way, is to buy a number of coins from the same dealer [to save on post], or attend a coin fair (and turn a blind eye to fuel costs). There's no easy answer, unfortunately, as it's not like say a Victorian coin, where a rubbish image on eBay can have you speculate a VF bid, whilst you're suspecting the coin might be VF and better. With E2 & G6, if an EF arrives, when you were hoping for an UNC, you've thrown your money away, as you will never be able to sell it on and get your money back. Here's where you've just got to have a dealer who's judgement in grading you 100% trust! Nothing else will do!

Really takes me back, that does! Hard to believe we would actually throw them at each other as kids!

Not without a link, thank you. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-QUALITY-GEORGE-III-CARTWHEEL-1797-TWOPENCE-2d-HUGE-2-oz-COIN-/290892253787?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Was it you who won it? It's a nice mid-grade example - some wear, not too much, good rim. Worth the price it went for, I'd say. Only blemish is that 9 but that's not really bad. Yes I won it! Cheers I've always wanted a nice example, one of my favorite coins! Mine too (It's not that blotchy in-hand, but you know how scans are. And it's been enlarged double size in Photoshop which doesn't do it any favours either.) They are great coins, though I like the penny even better! Ironically, in view of the CGS debate, the nicest one I've ever had I got slabbed, and then felt somehow detached from it, so ultimately let it go! I don't currently have a nice example myself, more is the shame!

I know quite a few professional workers with remortgages that have them in a neutral (at best) situation, after 10-15yrs of paying their mortgages. I even know of one person who took the endowment route in the 80's, and were massively let down by the second component, to the degree that a couple of the apparently 'usual' remortgages has left them with negative equity after a 30yr spell of home ownership, and crippling repayments! The greatest irony is they still view themselves amongst the proud elite, as a homeowner? A very interesting family of sheep is this our great and proud society! The only change to the mortgage I ever contemplated and did was to almost pay it off as soon as, leaving 50p outstanding to ensure they looked after the deeds. Best thing I ever did and one of life's unforgettable pleasurable moments. Which is why when the politicians were in the dock for falsifying expenses with one claiming he had forgotten it was paid off, my obvious reaction was complete and utter I went down the "low cost endowment" route in the mid-80s too. The policy would not have paid the mortgage off, but considering I went freelance in the 90s and paid it off, then made the policy "paid up" halfway through, the resulting maturity was a nice little earner. Very nice too, PK! Always good to have these little earners for the great passion! And that's a great photo of the obverse, Rob! I'm surprised you didn't flip it over with your boot and have a go at the reverse?

I know quite a few professional workers with remortgages that have them in a neutral (at best) situation, after 10-15yrs of paying their mortgages. I even know of one person who took the endowment route in the 80's, and were massively let down by the second component, to the degree that a couple of the apparently 'usual' remortgages has left them with negative equity after a 30yr spell of home ownership, and crippling repayments! The greatest irony is they still view themselves amongst the proud elite, as a homeowner? A very interesting family of sheep is this our great and proud society!

Thanks for the nod, circusbear, it's in my watch list!

I also can't stand the abbreviated nonsense, again all in lower case! c u tmoz 4 t dont b l8

Can you turn the item number into a link, please? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290892253787?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D290892253787%26_rdc%3D1

Pretty common on these coins to find blocked dies. There was always so much stray copper around, it's a miracle the problem was never worse, really!

Not without a link, thank you. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-QUALITY-GEORGE-III-CARTWHEEL-1797-TWOPENCE-2d-HUGE-2-oz-COIN-/290892253787?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=Amvy0IS812cJT3KC5UUZcvu%252Bz68%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc It is difficult - I've never actually managed to work it out - to put a link up when operating from an iPhone, it is the bane of my own life. Gratefully, I'm on the laptop for now! As Rob has mentioned, it has a superb edge, and every collector must have one! Welcome aboard, have a good read around the previous posts, there's plenty to learn, and maybe post some pictures up of your new coin when it arrives!

It can't be an upside down F. The horizontal parts would be on the other side of the vertical if it were. Nice bit of logic! Leaving a broken E, an unlikely blocked die, of a piece of workmanship of the quality of John's 'naked Britannia' penny, posted last year? Certainly intriguing, Bob!

Have you got a consistent lighting set-up? Also, I don't know what the function's called, but their was an F setting on my camera that needed fine-tuning to stop the camera from focusing on the background instead of the coin (something to do with depth of field, I think? Maybe this is what's giving you some blurred shots? Nick would probably know more!

Can we look at the obverse again? Photobucket is kaput, so just an ordinary size piccy Pwhooar! What's the plan with that one, Dave? I totally related to a comment you made about wishing you could afford to keep them all. I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet with that one!

Very good. Tripod, no hands and a Nikon using autofocus(?) link Not so good. Colour's good, and the reverse is pretty damn sharp, just a little out of focus on the obverse, that's all!

Can we look at the obverse again?

I just checked my collection, thinking I had one : turns out it's a 1900. Checking in Spink, it seems that none of the 1901 silver is rated lower/commoner than earlier dates. I should have been clearer. What I meant was, comparing the 1901 to Victorian shillings in general, with exception of the 1887, 1893 and 1897, it's price in Spinks would suggest an UNC would be an easyish find. I was actually replying to Nick's point about them being not easy to find in high grade. Spink seems to concur - it isn't an 'easy' date unlike the bronze (but not MORE difficult than earlier) Oh, dear, and I can't even blame the iPhone for not reading it properly, not this time! Maybe they are viewed in the same light as the 1902 or the 1936, and nobody is bothering to pick them up, as I can't find anything Top Grade displaying on the 'net or on any of our dealers' websites. If anybody spots a non-Heritage one, I'd appreciate the nod!

I just checked my collection, thinking I had one : turns out it's a 1900. Checking in Spink, it seems that none of the 1901 silver is rated lower/commoner than earlier dates. I should have been clearer. What I meant was, comparing the 1901 to Victorian shillings in general, with exception of the 1887, 1893 and 1897, it's price in Spinks would suggest an UNC would be an easyish find.

I'm assuming that the streakiness above wouldn't have been visible until the lustre wore off? It's hard to tell from the images, but looking between the crook of the first N in PENNY, and below the Trident Hand of Britannia, it looks as if the light-coloured material is all 'sitting' in deep pockets/flan flaws (for want of a better word). Also the unusual lines, radiating out from GRA across the bust, and the fact that the worn surfaces all appear to be uniform in metal colour, makes me wonder if there's more to it than meets the eye. Is it a possibility that the flan has been atrociously rolled, leaving pits in the fields, and more shallow depressions where the devices have forced the metal into new form, and what we can see is lustre sitting behind in recesses and pits? Only thinking out loud, as I can't get my head around how a poor metal mix, after being rolled into sheets, would manifest itself as 'flecks'???