Coinery

Thanks, Peck, appreciate you commenting…not my natural playground at all, and all the more difficult to judge from a poor image. I’m looking forward to taking an in-hand photo!

Firstly, can I ask what you think the reverse grade of this coin might be (Sellers pictures, I haven’t seen it in-hand, yet)? The obverse looks a clear unc to me, but the lighting/lustre reflections (or not) on the reverse are making me wonder whether I might have to downgrade that expectation overall? You’ll likely have made thousands more predictions of grade from seller photos than I have, so I’d really appreciate your insights. Oh, and secondly, I don’t suppose anyone recognises it for a bit of provenance, perchance? The reverse, with its die-crack and ‘straight-edge’ toning at the second N of penny, through to the ship, is reasonably distinctive.

Why would they ‘detail’ a die-crack? Is that standard practice, or a crazy one off?

Ah, yes, I see what you mean. It’s turned into a very interesting read

Wouldn’t we have to take the Julian Calendar into account, which starts a new year on 25th March?

Reminds us that we’ve come a long, long, way since then…I think? 🤔

Ah, just got a fix…it looks like there’s been some updates or other? If you’ve got a tab opened that’s displaying correctly, or click on the home link or pre-dec. link on the broken page, and then re-add it to your home-screen, everything should work as normal…hopefully

This is happening on my mobile! The strangest thing is if I use one of my old pre-dec. opened tabs and refresh it, it refreshes as normal, whereas clicking on my shortcut I get this:

Anyone else having issues with the forum uploading?

Interestingly there’s an image on the other thread that makes me see a three for the first time, and a clear rear serif of a four! Here’s a proposal…what about an original three, with a four inserted the following year, BUT it broke up during the insertion (bits in the red circle), making the die irreparable/useless until the next useable digit came along to cover up the mess, which could only be an eight or a nine?

Yes, that’s the diagonal I was referring to. You know what, that vertical line is far too straight in your example to be anything connected with the ‘curved’ numbers. Has anyone ever considered it might be a four, and that the remaining bottom loop and part serif is nothing other than a poor repair of the eight with an old, possibly broken punch? I’m sure you’ve all been over it a million times already. I guess it’s going to sit on the unidentified variety pile for some considerable time, maybe even forever?

So what do they do, then, with the old digit ‘hole’ left on the old die, before striking in a new digit? With hammered coins the old digit is just crudely overlaid as best as is able. Now, the reason I ask is because, according to the lighting, I see digits at three distinct depths, the 8 at the intermediate (middle) depth, a higher (deeper on the die) bottom section of a three (but having the wrong serif when briefly looking at other 1853s), and lower (shallow on the die) diagonal stroke, extending out of the eight, not correlating with very much, except maybe a seven? Was there ever a satisfactory outcome to this overdate or has it remained a mystery?

Yes, a different reverse die, mine’s the only reverse die of its kind I’ve found so far, with that double ring of pellets around the left half of the coin. By stable mate, I meant that the two coins were sold together in the same lot at the Wilkinson sale. I wasn’t paying attention, I thought both the tickets you supplied with the coin were yours. It wasn’t until this morning I realised one of them was W.W’s ticket

And finally this absolute beaut., which is clearly the best example to-date, bought for around £400 in ‘21, making it an absolute snip in consideration of Chris Comber’s ‘crustacean’ coin, which drew bids to take it over £500.

Another example, with all coins from the same single obverse die.

So my ex. W. Wilkinson (lot 292 [part] Noonans April ‘21), ex. Richard Lobel (Jan ‘97) halfgroat had a little stable mate.

Cheers, Rob, really appreciate that!

And the reverses!

Firstly, thank you Rob, I’m absolutely delighted with this little rarity. Secondly, I can only find images/reference to 2 other examples at this time, all 3 from the same obverse die, but three separate reverses. One being the ex Comber coin, and the other belonging to another member on here. Now of interest are the little row of extra pellets running through the 10 o’clock to 1 o’clock obverse legend, which look purposeful, rather than being the remnants/ghost of a previous die on old die bar? Also, of further interest and supporting this idea, is that the reverse of my new addition has the exact same phenomenon, running from 6 o’clock through to 12 o’clock, midway through the legend…so, does anyone have any idea why? I feel (of course I do) that my example is the nicer coin, being on a solid, good metal flan, even though the bust is weaker. I’d really struggle to choose between the ex Comber coin and mine on account of the crustaceans and porosity, I always struggle with these. So, as you can tell, pretty happy!

The thumbscrew is tightening upon those who can least afford a fancy accountant!

Does anyone happen to know re the following quote re ‘self-employed’ whether that would apply to someone who is PAYE too? Namely, I make less than £6k profit from coin sales, but work PAYE, and wonder if I went Sole Trader whether I could avoid the £15 per month stamp contributions? “As a sole trader you will pay National Insurance if you’re: - 16 or over - Self-employed and making a profit of £6,725 or more a year (for 2022/23).”

So would you have to go through the entire rigmarole of setting up as a sole trader and paying stamp duty, etc., just for flipping a few coins, or can you just submit a self-assessment at the end of the year, declaring you’ve profited, say, £3000 extra to your PAYE earnings? I went sole trader before and it was a nightmare of paperwork for the small supplementary income.

Thanks very much, an interesting read, much appreciated! My only confusion is with the ‘trading allowance’…when they say ‘earn’ £1000, do they mean profit or gross sales? Because £1000 worth of sales could generate £50 or £900 of profit? “If the total amount you earn via a platform in a tax year is £1,000 OR LESS, you probably don't need to tell HMRC or pay any extra tax This is because you're likely covered by what's known as the 'trading allowance'. This entitles you to earn up to £1,000 tax-free without having to report the income to HMRC or pay any income tax on it.”

How do they determine what is £1000 profit? Also, where does the person stand who buys a lot of say 5 coins, just for a single coin he/she wants, and wishes to dispose of the others? That would be a huge pain having to complete tax forms for that! And what about regularly selling your old clothes, etc., imagine having to prove what’s profit, without keeping every receipt for every item you ever buy? Plus, they say £1000 profit, but if you’re having to be accountable like a business, then a room in your house, the electric and heating, data use, computers, books bought, fuel and motor expenses, etc., etc., all have to be taken into account!

In the very, very, beginning I used to use olive oil, until I discovered it wasn’t benign at all. Olive oil is actually a weak acid, apparently characterised by an acidity between 1-2%. Just taking a quick Look at fingerprint oil, it looks to be 95-99% water and measuring anything up to 5 on the PH scale, which I read makes it comparable to black coffee. Needless to say I had an anxious few weeks decontaminating all my coins with acetone and sealing them back up again in airtight coin flips! To be honest, though, I don’t think the dry, ambient air of modern households would notably tone a coin more after decontamination with acetone, than it would before, but everyone to their own experience and views on this, I do however choose to keep mine in flips anyway.