azda, i sincerely hope that you and peckris both understand that my posts were meant in good faith and also meant to differentiate between the bad that occurs on ebay, those you have highlighted as shill bidders, those who clearly sell the utmost of polished crap, designed to mislead, and the genuine dealer, whom may have had a difference in grading to personal levels. we may all disagree on grade of a particular coin at times with bona fida dealers, that happens, we have different ideas and ideals, different knowledge of a specific coin/dies....etc etc, but it sure must be difficult to be all embracing. azda....how many times have you come on here to ask for die pairings/references for a particular penny.....loads azda....how many times have you asked for a grading on a particular coin...................................loads does that make you or any other here better than CC or Rendell........maybe yes, maybe no. but yes it does make YOU and Peckris and CC and Rendell and all the others here far and away better than the those shill bidders, crap sellers on ebay...........and that was the whole point of my original post....... im gonna leave this forum now................theres clearly no place for a prick like me here. ski I wouldn't worry, ski. There will always be disagreements with people even in the most (normally) harmonious of settings. Doesn't mean they're by default right, and you're wrong. Sometimes they will be and sometimes you will be. Sometimes you will both be half right and half wrong. Whichever, it's not worth putting yourself down and leaving for, as it will all be forgotten in a few days anyway. If you have something to say, say it, and if it happens to upset someone, then tough do dahs. It's life, it's the way it is. You should see many of the comments made and insults exchanged on some forums. Makes the worst of what you see on here look like a Sunday School outing. That's the trouble with fora, a timid gutless coward all of a sudden grows a pair the size of watermelons as he sits at his computer 2000 miles away from the poor recipient of the hurtful dirge. As Mike said Ski, divn't worry aboot it marra. I've got skin thicker than a Rhinos arse so you or anybody else might get me revved up for a minute or two but after that I start to worry about more important things like "can Newcastle stuff the Toffees the day?" Pardew deserved the Manager of the year award. Wonder what that numpty will do now though (Ashley) probably sack his most successful Manager in 10 years