Peckris

That was not my experience when small time dealing. The high grades were easy to sell, as they were either modern and common and therefore affordable, or they were snapped up by collectors wanting the best grades possible. On the other hand the Fine grades were also fairly easy as they went to buyers on a budget, or completing date runs etc. The ones I was often left with were VFs, too rich for the date-runners and too low for the quality buyers. Ok, I admit that's a generalisation but it's something I noticed. As you say, the 1980 rise and fall happened very quick : in December 1979 BU Geo VI silver florins were £2. A few months later they were £12 (not a great deal higher than their then scrap value), but by 1981 had dropped back to £2 again. The present situation is more complex as it is linked to the global recession and the fluctuation in metals and commodity prices, rather than one family's attempt to corner the market in one particular metal. FWIW I think the "long view" is always best. Remember how high gold was in the 70s and 80s? and how low it went in the 90s? and how high it has gone again? It's unwise to use commodity thinking to apply to coins, however erratic the coin market can behave at times. Yes, the older collector with disposable income returning to a schoolboy hobby has been well documented, and is clearly a factor in all this too. I guess the only thing we can safely say is that with coins, there are a number of different factors prevailing simultaneously, and if one was able to predict all of them and 'see the numismatic future', one would become very wealthy!

>>> I agree! A toned piece is unique, where a BU piece is like any other BU piece. >>> That's why bulk lots are so often bought by dealers, picking up coins at what amount to wholesale prices. >>> Metal markets only come in to play for low grade items - those St James lots were all GEF - UNC, and sold for many many times their metal value.

Interesting that the responses so far talk about extreme prices for "highly desirable but sought after by relatively few collectors with very deep pockets" coins. I'd be much more comfortable following up the last post's argument about such things as Vic/Ed VII halfcrowns at the St James Auction. Also to hear from newbies like Patrick, 'modest outlay' collectors like Scott and Declan (nevertheless very enthusiastic), dealers like Derek and Rob, etc. The top of the market is something I look at with purely academic interest, knowing that it's an ivory tower which may or may not be an indicator of what is happening lower down for the vast majority of collectors. I too was interested in those halfcrowns at St James - I agree that the rarest Ed VII pieces performed below their estimates, but perhaps those estimates were bumped up rather in anticipation of a frenzy? It was salutary to see that estimates for other Ed VII and Geo V halfcrowns - quality rather than rarity - were exceeded, sometimes dramatically. As for grades <=> prices - it's always been the case that UNC prices for 75% or more of coins exceed expectations, while other grades fall more and more behind. Having said that, I find that for modern milled VF has always been the hardest grade to predict. Fine grade coins will always find a ready buyer among a huge number of collectors who simply don't have the means for anything better, and prefer a large collection, or date run. Current trends are driven by the economic situation I believe, though not exclusively. Prices were steadily improving consistently from the mid-90s onwards, all through a Bull market. The current Bear market is seeing a "flight to alternative forms of investment" such as was seen in the mid-1970s. Are these new investors / collectors? I don't have the statistical analysis to answer that one. The unknown factor in all of this is eBay. It's been a large factor among collectors for only around 5 maybe 7 years. Before that it was only a minority source. However there are still plenty of serious collectors who would buy from the old established auction houses but never from eBay, so in a way, the online factor may only be affecting the very large bottom sector of the market rather than the 'gilded elite'. Yes to 1. Very much so. As ever. As always. This has never NOT been true, 1966-1973 excepted perhaps. 2.? Probably only for the top pieces where it does matter, but not for 95% or more of what's traded. Yes to 3. - see my paragraph about eBay. Yes to 4. - but bear in mind that UK coins were seriously underpriced in the mid-90s and have been catching up ever since. It's not just financial volatility though that has a part to play also.

i dont know how i managed that, one of those mystery's of life, however it was probably a peabrain to cumberland finger error for sure karzi cos theres a pic of one in the link to salvaging silver. is karzi a london term? interesting, i live in west london and not heard it soo much, but then i cant explain why i used the term either..........back to the peabrain Used, as I recall in 'Carry On Up The Khyber' when Kenneth Williams played the Kharzi of Khalabar and Sid James was Sir Sidney Rough-Diamond. Charles Hawtrey was Private Widdle of the 3rd Foot and Mouth. They don't make films like that any more... Remember "Carry on Spying"? Where Charles Hawtrey is asked for his secret agent number and says "000". "000? You CAN'T be 000. No-one's 000." "Well, I am. The recruiting officer took one look at me and said 'Oh-oh. Ohhhh' ".

When I first read this, I just accepted it as correct. But it isn't. The current queen's coin portrait faces to the right. OMG. I'm losing my marbles!! There's no defence - just like Arsenal.

I used to have one of those but the big end went... Wasn't it just a re-badged Mini?

The key word is not toned, but monster. That's the word you invariably see when the toning is OTT and it comes from the States. It can be chemical, it can be heat, but which ever way you look at it, it ain't natural. The following for these coins has undoubtedly been underpinned by the TPGs slabbing them as genuine and untampered with. If they always came back as environmentally damaged, you would destroy a complete cottage industry. EVEN IF the toning wasn't as ugly as sin (which it is - really really horrible), you NEVER NEVER see natural toning anywhere resembling that on a coin as worn as that. It barely qualifies as Fine. From the total lack of response, it looks like no-one is fooled, thank heaven for small mercies.

Just for you Peck khazi and alternate terms David Most kind of you David Though I must point out that that was WIKI not WILI. OIC! didn't read your post carefully, too subtle for me! David No problem - though it was originally your typo

??? I must get my eyes tested. I'm sure it says EDWARDVS VIII, but all I can see is GEORGIVS VI. Or perhaps it's the wrong photo? You're one up on me then (or should I say "1") as all I can see is GEORGIVS V

It's definitely not a Royal Mint issue for the following reasons : 1. The portrait faces the wrong way 2. The portrait is not by a recognised RM engraver 3. The quality of the strike looks fairly poor ((low relief) though this may be the photograph There were very many privately produced medallions for the Jubilee, as there have been for many occasions through time. Pinches for example, produced several handsome pieces. I'm tempted to say it's probably worth no more than bullion value, but I confess I know very little about this item. If it is a privately produced medallion, it will have little more than intrinsic value I'm afraid, except to a collector of such pieces. However perhaps there is someone in this forum who knows more about these?

Variety or not (I couldn't care less to be honest - there are so many in that series!) - it is one hell of a beaut of a coin. Nice find mate.

Any chance you can give the details of why its rare and perhaps the date of it etc? Pictures here would be even better. Especially of the letters too.

Blahhhhhhh Still a handsome state of preservation.

Just for you Peck khazi and alternate terms David Most kind of you David Though I must point out that that was WIKI not WILI.

I'm still trying to find the WILIPEDIA referred to above. I'm told they are trying to expand it, but the effort of searching for it has left me limp. It was clearly a stiff task.

too much info not enough info :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

wow thats amazing they can do that , well looks like a trick coin then many thanks I's just a curio and quite a common one at that. Stick it on e-bay and see what you get for it. However, don't go on about rarity, mint error or anything like that as most people would hopefully see through it... Especially if it's a Polo

or open(.....) i will ask him what might interest me Why ask HIM what might interest YOU? He'll tell you every piece of junk he can't shift might interest you. Its what interests you Patrick, and no one else Actually that's unfair on good dealers Az. I found a great small dealer years ago who operated through the back of an antiques shop. On my days off I'd breeze in and ask "Got anything for me?" - and when I look at back at some of the items I got from him : GF+ 1797 2d, BU 1924 6d, EF 1951 penny, 1906 and 1907 pennies both AUnc with lustre, BU 1901 and 1902 pennies, UNC 1914 6d, UNC 1926ME 1/-, 1684 3d GF, and much more besides, he didn't rip me off or palm me off with rubbish. The fact is, if you find a good dealer, he will often suggest things to you and encourage your collecting, especially a young 'un like Patrick who clearly won't make the dealer rich unless he wins the lottery.

No-one's ever asked, so I suppose it has to be me. What's the significance of "dairy"?

I suppose everyone hoarded the last silver (so 45/46 is dead easy), but no-one bothered with the first CuNi. Plus they circulated for so long... Yet strangely, 1948 CuNi in top grades has always been very very easy.

A great ambition You could pick up G1V and W1V farthings in top grade without breaking the bank, and sixpences are your best bet for silver, followed by shillings.

I seem to have got stubbornly stuck at nEF with them (EF for Type 2). I buy any that look like they might nudge that up by a fraction of a grade. I often wonder what I'd pay for a genuine UNC if one ever came up. In 2009 Spink thrust the price up from £15 to £75. I was never sure if it was a misprint or not. But then again, they seem to do that for all modern coins where the year ends in the same as the catalogue year. In 2001 for example, all 1951 coins shot through the roof, crowns doubling from £10 to £20. I haven't seen the price since - can anyone confirm what the current 1959S Spink value is? A jaw dropping £85 in UNC yet only £10 in EF. A multiple of 8.5 in grade from EF to UNC is bizarre? Thanks for that. Mind you, those 1959S are remarkably easy to find in EF compared to UNC. It's also worth pointing out that the increase to £10 - £75 was from £2 - £15, so it got quite a hike in EF at that time.

My take on the current market conditions is that the general economic situation means that for the many ordinary' collectors cash is being squeezed and so purchases have to either be fewer or in a lower grade. For the series collector who 'must have' a particular coin to fill a gap, subject to the above, price probably isn't so much of an issue. And for the wealthy, and this must include 'investors' then price probably isn't an issue, but condition is. The net result, if I'm right, is that top grade will hold its price and maybe even accelerate, as will rarer pieces even in lower grade, but for more run-of-the-mill dates in middle range condition prices will likely stagnate at their present level or will ease back as the 'ordinary' collector slows down on his purchases. As is always the case. Even relatively wealthy collectors will suffer some effects from the economic squeeze. Many collectors paying larger sums are older people close to retirement, whose annuities are producing less and less income compared to the rates on offer even 5 years ago. The out and out wealthy are unlikely to be affected, but I can see the likelihood of all bar these having to reduce their purchases. The bottom dredgers are less likely to be affected because low grade purchases costing a few pounds at most are never going to break the bank. If anything, this group stands a better chance of obtaining washers with detail as a bonus. Agreed. It's the "flight to quality" combined with the search for alternative forms of investment (especially with the low annuity rates, as Rob says) in troubled times, that will see coins at the high end going ever higher. Good quality but less rare items will keep their values I believe, while lower quality - the area that most relies on economic buoyancy - will suffer most. Which makes the values realised for those halfcrowns all the more surprising - the rarest items failed to reach their (high) estimates, while all else between 1906 and 1936 exceeded them, sometimes by quite a way. On the other hand it is just one auction. Perhaps many of those less rare lots were snaffled by a single buyer putting together a collection.

I seem to have got stubbornly stuck at nEF with them (EF for Type 2). I buy any that look like they might nudge that up by a fraction of a grade. I often wonder what I'd pay for a genuine UNC if one ever came up. In 2009 Spink thrust the price up from £15 to £75. I was never sure if it was a misprint or not. But then again, they seem to do that for all modern coins where the year ends in the same as the catalogue year. In 2001 for example, all 1951 coins shot through the roof, crowns doubling from £10 to £20. I haven't seen the price since - can anyone confirm what the current 1959S Spink value is?

Ah, the place where we are hunchbacked en crappe?