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Sad to hear it's a fantasy piece, but also good to know to watch out for them.

Great. Message me and we'll sort out the technicalities.

Well, sure - that would be great! I thought the Internet Archive had it all by now - but it's not of much use without pictures.

Made a mistake in my previous post. Right after I got back to Denmark I send Gary a few pre-Geroge III counterfeit shillings, for which he thanked me in a mail about a week later - And that was the last time I heard from him. As I understand his collection or part of it will be auctioned later this year.

Do you want a new place for it? It's such a shame that the pics are not available on the internet archive. My hosting provider doesn't charge me at all for low volume websites. I have a couple of small hobby websites of my own and also host for others (e.g. my friend Steve's https://www.thefakepoundcoindatabase.co.uk). There would be no charge of course!

Yes, the Steppeulvene page was mine - It just got to expensive to continue with it. Gary thought that I should have it, since I worked out a useful system of separating the main groups. I'm grateful that I got the chance to buy his collection and hope I can take the next step (which is a throughout study of the punches) later this year.

Those prices are quite astonishing. I have Peck's own 636 plate coin (Montagu 3); so now may be a good time to sell.

You'd need a deep pocket for most of these recent items at Heritage, but not all early copper has sky-rocketed over the last few years - the slab-grades have the main effect of course. There are two Peck plate coins, but none of the coins including theses were provenanced by Heritage. Perhaps the buyers recognised them too, but probably just going on the grades. All are hammer prices: 1694 1/2d - MS61 - $1200. Surprisingly low grade for a coin that retains lustre, this is the Nicholson example that sold for £1,200 (I think) in 2004, if so it's made no money at all over the last 20+ years! This is the exception price-wise. 1694 1/4d - MS64RB - $7,000. Lovely colour though slightly porous detail, this is Colin Cooke's own example sold 2005. 1695 1/2d - MS63 - $9,000 - big rise on this one, though it has been glossed and lost some lustre since previously sold at Baldwin's 2010 Strickland-Neville Rolfe auction. I saw it at the time and wondered if it was thick-flan (there's only one known otherwise) as it did look unusually thick. It was a bit porous though so that can be deceptive. Unfortunately it was sealed in plastic and I couldn't ask Baldwins to weigh it, because if it was heavy weight, they'd have amended the description and it wouldn't have been a bargain! It wasn't very cleanly struck though and It went for £540 back then. 1699 1/4d date in legend - MS64 - $7,000. This is Brook's example and is the Peck Plate coin despite the dark photograph where you had to squint to make out much. The edge variation matched up and it is of course the no-stop between A and the date variety - which was also not mentioned by Heritage. As far as I know, this was last sold in the Shuttleworth collection SNC 2001 as EF £650. 1701 1/2d - MS63 - $7,250. Also the Peck plate coin and Heritage auctions missed (or the slabbers couldn't be bothered to note) it was no stops obverse (P.704). This is ex Nicholson Hopetown House, Peck.

Welcome back @seuk. I am sorry to hear about Gary, though I did not know him. He made a wise and altruistic decision in passing on his collection intact before he passed. Is/was the website I linked to above yours or his? Is it likely that it will ever be resurrected? It was a wonderful and powerful addition to our knowledge of counterfeit coins.

That's sad. I lost my mum to a brain tumour in 2021. By the time she was diagnosed it was stage 4. Three months she lived from diagnosis to passing away. Affected us all deeply. Thank you for replying. I look forward to seeing your future research when you are publishing your findings. Stu.

Poor Gary, but absolutely fantastic that you’re still around and working with the counterfeit coinage. Nice to hear from you.

Hi Guys! I'm still around but haven't had much time for coin study lately. Gary was about to start a new cancer treatment which unfortunately proved to be in vain. As he knew he might not be recovering, he offered me to buy his collection of counterfeit George IIIs shillings at a very fair price. So I jumped on a plane and spend a pleasant evening with him where we wrapped the coins in rolls with paper and looked at some of his vast collection. Next morning the very day he would start the new treatment, I returned to Denmark - and never heard from him again. I haven't yet had a chance to look at the coins, of which there are apparently over a thousand. Instead, I've been working with my own collection in the hope of being able to refine the group divisions and perhaps arrive at a more correct classification for the whole series. Only when that's finished, I will start classifying Gary's coins.

Americans love the 'evasions' so would possibly snap up the 1775? As for the 1773, it's worth keeping - I've never seen anything that size before, so even if a fake it's got great novelty value! The 1882H is nice enough to keep though only worth a few £.

No problem.It was only afterwards when i was looking at it thinking how's it been made it dawned on me that it looks like it was soldered on. It looks like the right arm on the figure has fallen off and possibly the E on that side as well or not enough solder was used and it just smudged the E. That would explain why it's unique as it's literally been handmade by someone. I doubt you could make another even similar without adding or losing bits. It's something to be on the look out for in the future. I have seen similar work on fake stycas. Usually though with them they go back to bare metal when you plunge them in acetone as the patina is painted on them. Stu.

You were 100% correct Stu and thanks unwillingly numismatist for putting me on to Liz who verified it was a fantasy piece unfortunately 😕 Thanks guys this is much appreciated because it's irked me for some time. Glad it was in a joblot of coins auction and as it hardly cost anything.

Ahhhhhh...! so the H mint coin had the potential to be of interest albeit for the fact 1882 was mass produced by Heatons.....bummer!! 1862 circulated so no interest 1773 & 1775 are possibly contemporary forgery produced in the US ..... now that got to be of interest ?!?!?! Did I mention "I don't feel any thing for the Pennies!?!" all the very best "H"

Is it just me or does the design & lettering look like it was applied using a soldering iron ? Strange blobs where the metal has been applied then smeared / spread out ? Stu.

Liz is the one i meant when i said chris rudd. She's running his website & sales. She will do free evaluations for people. Get in touch with her and let us know her verdict. Sorry to sound sceptical but i often see fake coins with unusual pairings for sale on ebay. It's a common theme done on purpose so you cannot compare the coin to an original to pick out the differences. I see it quite often with fake styca & sceatta. Anyway good luck and keep us posted.

Hi Stu The weight of it is 1.9 grams and is about 15mm wide bud

1882 were nearly all minted by Heatons and therefore carry the H - a few were minted in London (just to test the new electronic presses?) and are very rare. I'm baffled by the George III coins though - pennies weren't minted until 1797, "cartwheel" type. There's no 1773 or 1775 pennies, but there were halfpennies which are noticeably smaller than bun pennies unlike your 1773. The 1775 looks very wrong and is probably an 'evasion' type, i.e. a contemporary forgery produced in the US. The 1773 "penny" looks more like a genuine halfpenny should apart from the size , but is also probably wrong - REX is wider spaced than on a genuine example.

Aha, A few more raise their heads, Interestingly one has the "H" Heaton Mint Mark...I understand that this may be the most interesting of the group? open and honest I don't feel any thing for the Pennies, looking just to keep the important ones for the family. any advise or guidance most welcome.

or liz@celticcoins.com - She'll be a good resource on it too. EDIT: I'm going to sit on the fence with the caveat: I think it should be properly appraised by a professional. If the internet cannot provide a similar example, it's either a contemporary forgery or real. It looks struck, not cast and that would entail quite a lot of work in order to produce a fake which would not have any intrinsic or implied value without any solid provenance. It is not impossible for it to be a new discovery. Good luck.

I think we should all be able to make our own and spend them in the shops with our names on, as with tokens in the past few hundred years. Personally I think the average person on the street has more credibility for financial responsibility than any politicians, who are trying to steer a sinking ship to a relatively safe grounding point. The average person has a moral compass and believes in paying his dues. One day the world will wake up to the fact that we are all living beyond our means, being unwilling to reconcile the cost of luxury with the actual cost. I include luxuries in the areas of general public services that are provided whether you use them or not. For a sustainable existence you have to make it just as easy to produce offspring as it is to get rid of the old. Nature, left to it own devices will always find a balance between supply and demand, but that is essentially based on the food supply. We don't have the luxury of natural balance, being obsessed with the concept of eternal life and have worked continuously since our brains developed to further our success. If we run short of food, we make a conscious decision to bugger someone/something else in life. We shouldn't have that right, or at least provide a quid pro quo to our ability to determine every possible outcome.

Even if one-pees are ever removed from circulation, the RM won't miss an opportunity to milk them for as long as possible, minting BU as normal and as many other 1p novelty types as they can possibly sell - probably long after actual money itself becomes just a novelty... merely old fashioned gift vouchers/tokens to hand to people on special occasions and for use by people who refuse to let go. I'm a fan of actual cash, I think over here in Germany cash is probably more widely used than in the UK. In the end people will always go with what is most convenient, they don't really care . Apart from criminals, they'll all have to switch to crypto! I don't remember shillings either. Or technically I suppose I do, because they were still in use in the 80s as 5p. I bet retaining the shilling name (and multiples thereof) would have worked perfectly fine if they were dual 5p/shillings from the start. In fact even in the 70s when the 1p/2p still had useful spending power, they probably would have known they would eventually be phased out just like the half-pee was. In fact, the 1p removal from circ (but not existence) is probably long overdue. How about re-valuing a new £1 at £10 old-decimal fv, made up of 20 new-shillings (equiv of 50p each) and a new new penny at 100th of a new £1, i.e. 10p in old-decimal. Yeah, that would work and wouldn't be confusing at all 😑

I can't answer those questions. My gut feeling is its not genuine. It just looks really crude to me. How big is it ? I've weighed my cranborne chase silver stater which is a fairly large coin for a celtic coin and its 5.12 grams. My smaller Iceni unit weighs 1.15 grams. To give you some perspective of size I've put the Iceni unit next to a 2023 5p. Best advice i can give you is measure it , weigh it and take some high quality images of it and send them to Chris Rudd. His contact address should be somewhere on his website. Google will get you there.