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7 hours ago, alfnail said:

Here's an 1854/3 which I bought on ebay for £7.50 in 2008.

I sold it to Andy Scott in 2014, and presume it was sold as part of his collection through Spinks, think 2015........but I don't know where it went.

I owned this piece before I had a digital microscope, so pictures of 4/3 in date are not great. However, if you stare at the overdate you can see the 3 appear from underneath, including the tip of the middle bar poking out at the right hand side of the inner part of the 4.........not often seen.

1854_3 Obverse.jpg

1854_3 Reverse.jpg

1854_3 Date Close Up.jpg

Thanks Ian.

These 4/3's are doubly difficult to identify as most don't have enough of a close up date shot to tell one way or the other, and very few are actually attributed (correctly or otherwise) as such anyway.  

With that said, the sloping colon and the worn hair are clearly helpful pointers.

 

 

Edited by 1949threepence

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OK, you guys are pushing me to go back and look at my copper pennies with magnification. If I find anything, I will report. Heretofore I had just pretty much left it to the 1860/59 and the 1858/2-3.....Excellent. I will report back with any findings.

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(moved post to correct forum user)

Edited by leffertsamba
used wrong forum login by mistake. will repost under atlas numismatics.

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No idea on the coin @AtlasNumismaticshowever I must say you have some cracking coins but generally find you way over priced on your British stuff, in the main, unfortunately for me!

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I don't usually have anything of interest to show but I was quite pleased to discover this, amongst some eBay tat, at the weekend.

WP_20200915_11_57_43_Pro_copy_1920x1080.jpg

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4 hours ago, AtlasNumismatics said:

Hi Everyone,
We just received this piece back from PCGS: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/40396601. We can't find the overdate listed anywhere and wanted to see if any specialists in British copper knew of such an overdate or if it might be a die flaw instead? I have attached close-ups of the date.
rpx3cqy6bavu.jpg
2phcvj7289eg.jpg

This is similar in many respects, however I consider it to be a 5/5...

I'm not sure that yours isn't a 5/5 too...

That being said, I'll defer to John and Ian for a more definitive response....

20200916_154954.jpg

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The numerals on the atlas example are in the correct position for it to be a 5/5, although the top of the 2nd 5 looks straighter than I have seen before. 

I'm still thinking that it is most likely a 5/5.

I have owned 8 examples of the 5/5 over the years and they all have the same obverse / reverse legend features.

Atlas, suggest you check the obverse to see if yours has the small protrusions I have highlighted on the OR of VICTORIA, and then check the reverse (which should be a Plain Trident) to see if the NN of BRITANNIAR looks like the picture below.

  

OR Predecimal.jpg

NN Pred.jpg

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27 minutes ago, alfnail said:

The numerals on the atlas example are in the correct position for it to be a 5/5, although the top of the 2nd 5 looks straighter than I have seen before. 

I'm still thinking that it is most likely a 5/5.

I have owned 8 examples of the 5/5 over the years and they all have the same obverse / reverse legend features.

Atlas, suggest you check the obverse to see if yours has the small protrusions I have highlighted on the OR of VICTORIA, and then check the reverse (which should be a Plain Trident) to see if the NN of BRITANNIAR looks like the picture below.

  

I can understand a 4 being in the graders mind as the initial thought would be the remains of the crosslet to the right of the 5 and the seemingly diagonal remains within the loop of the 5.

However the diagonal has a distinct curvature, giving rise to a rounded numeral, and there are no remaining signs of the upright,  I would think the remains of it would be obvious being the larger and stronger part of a 4.

I looked at the possibility of a 3, Mangahas records an occurrence of a 5 over 3 in Halfpennies, looking at the coin it is easy to image a 3, and the CP1853 has several different variations in positioning, size and re cutting, but the 3  has a rounded top, the top of the numeral is very straight and rises from left to right, it also has a definable dip in the middle. but would be worth overlaying the different types to see if there is a fit.

Personally I would still go for a 5 over 5, again there are several variations in both positioning,  formation and re cutting of the 5's in 55, especially when taking the observations above into account,.

Would be worth overlaying both 3 and 5 to find a conclusive answer.

 

 

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There was a response to this query on the PCGS forum. I also think it has the appearances of 5 over 5.

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7 hours ago, alfnail said:

The numerals on the atlas example are in the correct position for it to be a 5/5, although the top of the 2nd 5 looks straighter than I have seen before. 

I'm still thinking that it is most likely a 5/5.

I have owned 8 examples of the 5/5 over the years and they all have the same obverse / reverse legend features.

Atlas, suggest you check the obverse to see if yours has the small protrusions I have highlighted on the OR of VICTORIA, and then check the reverse (which should be a Plain Trident) to see if the NN of BRITANNIAR looks like the picture below.

  

OR Predecimal.jpg

NN Pred.jpg

Thank you very much @alfnail and everyone else for your useful comments. These die characteristics match perfectly and we will assume it is a degraded 5/5 punch and submit for reholder at PCGS.

 

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21 hours ago, Zo Arms said:

I don't usually have anything of interest to show but I was quite pleased to discover this, amongst some eBay tat, at the weekend.

WP_20200915_11_57_43_Pro_copy_1920x1080.jpg

Thanks for showing this . It reminded me that I didn't have one , so I went on ebay to see what was on offer .Found one partially attributed with 10 mins to go with a 99p top bid .A gap filled for the princely sum of £1.04 lol

 

s-l1600.jpg

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3 hours ago, mick1271 said:

Thanks for showing this . It reminded me that I didn't have one , so I went on ebay to see what was on offer .Found one partially attributed with 10 mins to go with a 99p top bid .A gap filled for the princely sum of £1.04 lol

 

s-l1600.jpg

I'm pleased that I prompted you. And a bargain too.

You'll be searching for a Gouby X next then?😎

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11 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

I'm pleased that I prompted you. And a bargain too.

You'll be searching for a Gouby X next then?😎

You'll be offering one for sale next then? :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

You'll be offering one for sale next then? :lol:

eBay is full of surprises if you look.😎

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22 minutes ago, Zo Arms said:

I'm pleased that I prompted you. And a bargain too.

You'll be searching for a Gouby X next then?😎

I already have a Gouby x . It is a horrible looking coin though. It has been polished to death , but at least I have one .....and it was cheap .

 

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39 minutes ago, mick1271 said:

I already have a Gouby x . It is a horrible looking coin though. It has been polished to death , but at least I have one .....and it was cheap .

 

Not as scarce as first thought. R17. Now R7 I believe as more turn up. I've boosted the population to the tune of 4. All lower grade though.

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3 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

You'll be offering one for sale next then? :lol:

He sold me one some time ago.

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