England Frightened Of Scottish Indepemdence

[azda 973]

Looking through this thread its easy to see the perception of the English contigent of Scottish independence. Some say we should be grateful for English rule (lol, really?) still have'nt seen 1 good arguement as to why Scotland should stay.

A majority seem to think we should, so i'd like to hear/read why, then when you have nothing to argue about, think why Westminster are so keen to keep a firm grip of Scotland, off you go, lets see what you have

Politisions are politisions because of their own self inerests. Don't think because the politisions for their own self interests are panicing and want the UK to stay whole that the people give a hoot.

If Scotland really want to seperate, the English should be given a vote. Turnout would be very low but it would be a land slide result.

Landeslide result? You Sound like a Tory Gary because you are telling me something that you don't REALLY know, facts are what is required and not myth, feel free to give me facts. Edited April 7, 2014 by azda

[copper123 1,352]

yes i pay for prescriptions, mine are not free - last one was 2 years ago but i am now entering the time where i might need more and more of them (ie my mid fifties)

i have paid dozens of times over the last 30 year and never moaned about it

[copper123 1,352]

I am not blaming scotland for anything , is there really a point complaining about the poor state of the roads when there is a darn mountain in the way wherever you want to put a road .

One of the main reasons that the roads are in a state is because half of you lot deserted the place in the early sixties and the seventies 'cause there was so few jobs- those that didn't leave were either pensioners or unemployed (remember rab c )

You could buy a cottage in scotland for £100 in the late sixties it would be worth £300,000 now a a stockbrokers weekend retreat

[Gary1000 41]

yes i pay for prescriptions, mine are not free - last one was 2 years ago but i am now entering the time where i might need more and more of them (ie my mid fifties)

i have paid dozens of times over the last 30 year and never moaned about it

Yes it has happened to me, but I get mine free.

[scottishmoney 18]

Perhaps the Donald Trump would like to contribute to better roads in Scotland.

[Accumulator 52]

I've made a few jokes but personally I'm not bothered one way or another. I don't think most of there English are. I'm certainly not going to produce any facts to support my position, because I don't have a position on this.

The only thing that feels wrong, though, is that the Scots will decide if the want to be part of the UK, but the rest of the UK doesn't get to decide if they want the Scots as members. That is simply not democratic. If the Scots leave, fair enough, but if they decide to stay by a few % then do we really want such uncommitted members in our club?

[DaveG38 385]

For me the biggest problem that the independence debate is causing is to the potential relationships between the Scots and the English, regardless of the outcome of the vote. Alex Salmond would have everyone believe that it will all be very amicable and civilised and friendly, but I'm not so sure. Certainly, as soon as the UK government made the position plain about the currency the whole debate turned very acrimonious, even though the UK government's position and the reasons for it were perfectly logical and crystal clear.

The SNP's idea that they could insist on a currency union and that everything will carry on much as before was always a ridiculous position, since divorce is rarely a nice happy experience. It seems to me that the SNP hasn't factored into their thinking the way in which Scotland would be regarded by rUK. AS seemed quite affronted by the idea that Scotland would be a foreign land, which goes to show the naive way in which the SNP think this whole process can be managed. Post-independence Scotland will be a foreign country and rUK will have no need to give any regard to it, so far as it's own policies go. Being larger, both economically and structurally, rUK can, if its politicians wish, introduce policies that run counter to the best interests of Scotland, and no amount of bleating by the SNP will have any impact on this.

Then there's the issue of how companies and individuals regard the Scots in future. It seems to me that there will be a likely legacy of bitterness that may end up being detrimental to those Scots who live in England and it may well be that companies in future will take a different attitude to Scottish employees. For instance, if Scotland does go for independence and isn't granted immediate membership of the EU, as seems likely, what would be the position regarding Scots in employment in rUK? Some of the options here could become quite discriminatory as the rUK government decides how to deal with the presence of alien workers in the country, and maybe takes a very bitter view of Scotland in its political thinking.

And that's all irrespective of the attitude to individual Scots in England from the English in general. However much the SNP may want to have a nice amicable arrangment it may find that attitudes harden on both sides of the border and that overall the situation becomes a far from satisfactory one. I personally think that things may never be quite the same again, at least not for a long time, regardless of the outcome of the vote. Even if the vote is 'no', it's rather like a marriage that survives an affair by one party - the attitude of the other is unlikely to be as it was before the affair, no matter how much one side forgives the other.

[Paulus 1,942]

What Dave said

[Peckris 579]

What's rUK ?

[DaveG38 385]

What's rUK ?

rumpUK - i.e. what's left after Scotland departs.

[Gary1000 41]

What's rUK ?

rumpUK - i.e. what's left after Scotland departs.

Don't you mean England, as Wales is a principality and NI is a province. So England is the only bit left with Country status.

[DaveG38 385]

What's rUK ?

rumpUK - i.e. what's left after Scotland departs.

Don't you mean England, as Wales is a principality and NI is a province. So England is the only bit left with Country status.

I agree that the structure of the four countries, provinces, principalities is complicated and I don't think it helps to get into the question of whether its the UK, Great Britain etc. At the end of the day, the internationally recognised 'country' at present is the UK (except when playing football) and if Scotland leaves it seems likely to me that this name will be collectively retained by England, Wales and NI as the title is internationally understood. Describing it as rUK simply underlines the diminished position following the withdrawal of Scotland from this framework.

[azda 973]

If you look through this whole topic its very plain to see before during and after., the posters who are writing the comments are writing in a THEM AND US form which is the way it ALWAYS has been, so if Scotland should decide to vote for independence then it will be US and not "the little boys up North" as is the General feeling.

The comment by copper123 regarding the roads, well i'm sure ROAD TAX was designed to repair/Build roads, so quite why Westminster should decide not to repair/Build inside Scotland is open for debate, but let me say this, i've driven on some terrible roads in England also.

Accumulators Statement about why Englamd is'nt allowed to vote is yet just ANOTHER smack in the face of a UNION because i thought Wales and NI were also part of this marriage yet none of you have mentioned that Wales and NI should also vote.

So yet again we see how arrogant English mindsets are in regards to the Union (that it and all the Nations in the Union actually belong to England) and so this is why i find the whole Situation arrogant and justified that only SCOTLAND should decide its fate.

P.s, no offence AC, just making my point

Edited April 8, 2014 by azda

[Peckris 579]

What's rUK ?

rumpUK - i.e. what's left after Scotland departs.

That doesn't make any sense. The UK is England Scotland Wales and N Ireland. If Scotland leaves, then the UK is England Wales and N Ireland. There's no 'r' about it.

Though it does make you think : would the Queen have any say about it?

The comment by copper123 regarding the roads, well i'm sure ROAD TAX was designed to repair/Build roads, so quite why Westminster should decide not to repair/Build inside Scotland is open for debate, but let me say this, i've driven on some terrible roads in England also.

The road tax was originally designed to build/repair roads, but it's been many a long decade since that pretence was maintained. Road Tax, like National Insurance, is 'just another tax' used by the Government of the day for whatever it sees fit. As you rightly say, the roads in England are pretty awful with the possible exception of the motorways, constantly being patched up/relaid.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Peckris

[azda 973]

Yes i knew this about the road tax Peck, they just use it for wars etc, but back in the day when copper123 had mentioned, it was used what it was designed for, this was my Point.

[DaveG38 385]

What's rUK ?

rumpUK - i.e. what's left after Scotland departs.

That doesn't make any sense. The UK is England Scotland Wales and N Ireland. If Scotland leaves, then the UK is England Wales and N Ireland. There's no 'r' about it.

Though it does make you think : would the Queen have any say about it?

The comment by copper123 regarding the roads, well i'm sure ROAD TAX was designed to repair/Build roads, so quite why Westminster should decide not to repair/Build inside Scotland is open for debate, but let me say this, i've driven on some terrible roads in England also.

The road tax was originally designed to build/repair roads, but it's been many a long decade since that pretence was maintained. Road Tax, like National Insurance, is 'just another tax' used by the Government of the day for whatever it sees fit. As you rightly say, the roads in England are pretty awful with the possible exception of the motorways, constantly being patched up/relaid.

rUk is simply a descriptor, or a convenience if you like, in debates to indicate that portion of the existing UK that would be left after Scotland's independence. It has no status as the official name of the country - that will, as you say, remain the UK.

[scottishmoney 18]

I personally think that things may never be quite the same again, at least not for a long time, regardless of the outcome of the vote. Even if the vote is 'no', it's rather like a marriage that survives an affair by one party - the attitude of the other is unlikely to be as it was before the affair, no matter how much one side forgives the other.

That statement is very true. By example look at the Quebec question in Canada. Twice independence from Canada has come up for a vote and lost. But the acrimony has lingered long after the voting queues dissipated. What the Quebecois didn't factor in was new immigration patterns into Canada that saw many new citizens coming in from Asia, Europe etc that are demonstrably more loyal to Canada than some unfamiliar foreign power. The changing demographics has seen many native English speakers leave Quebec over the last 30-40 years, which you would think would favour the French speaking Quebecois - but immigration has offset the loss of native English speakers with non-native English speakers loyal to Canada.

I really do not believe that Scotland is going to leave the UK - but I certainly haven't a doubt that the acrimony over the whole matter will last for years and years.

"Crikes, wha the hay aire we gonna duo?"

[azda 973]

Yet another interesting article

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-mushroom-farm/

[azda 973]

And a little more info

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/10-key-economic-facts-that-prove-scotland-will-be-a-wealthy-independent-nation/

Strangely enough, Westminster can't rebuff anything yet

[azda 973]

Now its getting a little more interesting. The 1st newspaper to come out in Support of the yes campaign

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/04/sunday-herald-declares-yes-for-scottish-independence

Read the comments, there's one or two from England who were quite unbiased in their commemts.

[scottishmoney 18]

At least Scotland leaving the UK, in the unlikely event that happens, will be less of a civil distraction than what is going on in Ukraine now. All those places in the news, particularly Donets'k are my old stomping grounds.

[azda 973]

Please play the Video, this is quite some speech, its not political, rather than General of what's happening in todays Society

http://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/play-this-everywhere/

[azda 973]

Oh dear, looks like Westminster are back to the shitty tactics again. It can only mean one thing considering when they were out in front they were all for showing the polls, the table and tide is turning towards independence

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/14/publishthepoll-scottish-independence-poll-blocked-westminster_n_5321641.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Edited May 14, 2014 by azda

[petitioncrown 4]

NOTHING NEW IN THE WORLD, NOTHING CHANGES, this was in 122 AD, have a smile:-

Attached is Hadrian on a low plinth addressing the British Legions in 122 AD in Britain. Recently displayed for many years at the British Museum

Hadrian's Biographer wrote

"(Hadrian) was the first to build a wall 80 miles long to separate the Romans from the barbarians"

www.petitioncrown.com

[Peckris 579]

NOTHING NEW IN THE WORLD, NOTHING CHANGES, this was in 122 AD, have a smile:-

Attached is Hadrian on a low plinth addressing the British Legions in 122 AD in Britain. Recently displayed for many years at the British Museum

Hadrian's Biographer wrote

"(Hadrian) was the first to build a wall 80 miles long to separate the Romans from the barbarians"

www.petitioncrown.com

Obviously that was the SPQR-IP...