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I have now found the tracking number and interrogation of the Royal Mail system shows that it was delivered on 31/12/21 together with a photograph of the signature of the neighbour who received it.

So, I wonder whether the Royal Mail will now join the dots ?

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Hmm...to me, the sticking point is whether you will get the money from the buyer.

If it was my problem, I'd be explaining to the buyer your legal position, and get them to pay you for what they hold,

so that title can pass to them, and you can then repay the compensation to RM, keeping things pleasant.

Without the buyer paying you again, you can only hope RM don't twig, which is an uncomfortable position to be in.....

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It is highly likely they will have an audit system in place, especially for higher value claims, though it might take some time to be processed . You really don’t want them to have to chase you up, especially with your legal obligation to be proactive. The last thing you need is to face an insurance fraud claim just because the purchaser (who claims on his website to have “probably the best penny collection in the world“ ) won’t pay up.....though he will eventually be obliged to do so, one way or another. Sorry to be negative here,  but is it really worth the risk?
 

Jerry

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12 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

If it was my problem, I'd be explaining to the buyer your legal position, and get them to pay you for what they hold,

That was what I did yesterday but he wants proof of compensation repayment before he will "act" (with no promise of return/repayment).

As you say, I'm in an uncomfortable position.

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11 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

 i will keep out of a thread that i know nothing about 😀 

 

Never stopped you before...:ph34r:

  • Haha 1

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5 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

Never stopped you before...:ph34r:

Yes but the difference with me Jon is i dont pretend to know everything and can laugh at myself 👍

  • Like 2

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My first reply from a solicitor colleague:

  1. You had a contract with the buyer and as matters now stand you have supplied the coin and the buyer has  failed to pay for it and prima facie to complete the contract he must do so or return the coin
  2. The contract you had with Royal Mail is a separate issue and whilst I am not familiar with the specific terms it seems clear that you should return the compensation to them and not to do so may be a criminal offence.

Pretty much as Jerry said.

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4 hours ago, secret santa said:

I have now found the tracking number and interrogation of the Royal Mail system shows that it was delivered on 31/12/21 together with a photograph of the signature of the neighbour who received it.

So, I wonder whether the Royal Mail will now join the dots ?

Possibly, but they are far from the most efficient organisation in the world, so I wouldn't hold my breath, even after disclosure. Moreover, Richard, I'd make damn sure you have hard evidence of disclosure, and not rely on a telephone call. Either an e mail or tracked delivery letter (or both) to the London HQ I linked to last night. That way if everything goes quiet for a year or two, nobody can ever say you haven't told them, as all you have to do is flourish a document. If tracked delivery they can't say it wasn't that you told them about as they should be able to proeuce the document sent. If they can't, due to carelessness, that's their lookout. I've learnt from previous negative experiences never to rely on a phone call as valid evidence. "All calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes" - then deleted after 6 weeks.       

The unusual thing about this is that searching online, I couldn't find a single reference, anecdotal or otherwise, to this specific type of event (ie: item lost, compensation paid, item turns up and delivered to original buyer). Not one. That genuinely surprised me as I thought there would be some instance referred to which might serve as a possible benchmark.      

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I totally agree and always put everything in writing. I've taken screen shots of the RM tracking result as shown above and kept all email correspondence with the buyer and will endeavour to communicate with the RM in print.

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22 hours ago, secret santa said:

I have just found the correspondence from the Royal Mail that accompanied their payment of compensation. The claim form that I completed confirms that "I undertake to advise Royal Mail Group Ltd immediately if any lost letters or parcels are subsequently traced, and to refund Royal Mail Group Ltd any monies paid in compensation for these items."

That's pretty clear - I have a liability to pay back the compensation.

I'm being picky here, but of course that's what a solicitor would be...:

What PROOF do you have, to supply to the RM that the "lost ... parcel [ has been ] subsequently traced"? You've had absolutely no official notification of the fact, just the word of the purchaser. Yes, you could argue that there would be no reason for him to lie about it, but "I submit M'Lord, that there has been no official notification in this case".

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

What PROOF do you have, to supply to the RM that the "lost ... parcel [ has been ] subsequently traced"? You've had absolutely no official notification of the fact, just the word of the purchaser. Yes, you could argue that there would be no reason for him to lie about it, but "I submit M'Lord, that there has been no official notification in this case".

Did you not read what I wrote 9 hours ago ?

" I have now found the tracking number and interrogation of the Royal Mail system shows that it was delivered on 31/12/20 together with a photograph of the signature of the neighbour who received it."

Is that not PROOF ? Together with his photograph of the coin on his website, that seems reasonable proof to me.

Edited by secret santa
correction

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Not to be too picky, but just to confirm that it is a typo and not an error in the RM system, I assume you meant to write December 31, 2020, not 2021...

If it does say 2021, then their system has serious problems and argument could be made that it is unreliable and untrustworthy...

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Oh dear, the buyer has refused to pay me, accusing me of threats and extortion and trying to benefit from the situation.

He says he will pay the RM if they ask for the repayment of the compensation, despite me explaining calmly and politely that it's a totally different issue (and contract) from purchase of the coin.

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4 minutes ago, Iannich48 said:

I will not comment this time Richard, but.....

Please do..........I need advice

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Please do..........I need advice

Just clear it with the buyer that when you receive the repayment demand from RM, you can send it direct to him and he can pay it. It's identical in principle to what he's suggested.  

ETA: who is this guy anyway, Richard? All this talk about his website and the "greatest penny collection in the world" made me wonder. 

Edited by 1949threepence

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20 hours ago, secret santa said:

Did you not read what I wrote 9 hours ago ?

" I have now found the tracking number and interrogation of the Royal Mail system shows that it was delivered on 31/12/20 together with a photograph of the signature of the neighbour who received it."

Is that not PROOF ? Together with his photograph of the coin on his website, that seems reasonable proof to me.

You said - your own words! - that the RM did NOT officially notify you about the recovery!!!

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I'd take him to small claims court. You sold him a coin, and refunded him. He now has a coin which he has not paid for.

What goes on between Richard and the RM is none of the buyer's business, is it?

I'd send a letter before action telling him that if he doesn't either make payment or return the coin you'll proceed against him. I doubt you'd need to go much further.

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