Two Anglo Saxon coins

[Peter99]

Some 12 years ago I was bequeathed a few coins amoungst whish were the following two Anglo Saxon coins.

At the time they were valued, as below, for probate purposes by a 'friend' in hammered coins, but not Anglo Saxon,

with the provisio : 'if genuine'.

What do you think? I would appreciate your opinion and if original their value.!

1) Cnut silver penny 1016 - 1035AD Quatrefoil type Value: £80

CNVT REX ABGLO
PINSIG ON LVNDE
Wt: 0.96g

2) Eadgar silver penny 959 - 975AD value: £100

EADGAR.REX

HERIG***ERMO

Wt: 1.38g

Many thanks!

[Peter99]

Further to my above post, the grading I have :-

1) A Card with the coins:-

Cnut: Extremely fine

Eadgar: about VF or better

2) My 'friend' (if genuine):-

Cnut: fine

Eadgar: Good fine

[Paulus]

Hi Peter, a very warm welcome to the Forum.

This is not my area at all, but there are several on here who will be able to help you with authenticity and attribution.

If genuine (of course), I would say these 2 coins would be worth considerably more than the valuation from 12 years ago.

The latest Spink price guide gives the Cnut coin at £300 (in VF) (this is a very rough guide as there is a lot of regional variation with these coins, and rarer dies/mints/moneyers may command a premium).

The same price guide has the Eadgar coin at £550 and upwards (in VF, depending on variety).

I'm sure others will give you more detail!

[azda]

The CNUT if genuine is way better than just fine, there's a hell if a difference in grading gap between what your friend says and the card, i'd say minimum VF ir better

Edited April 15, 2015 by azda

[TomGoodheart]

Hi Peter! Hopefully some of the experts in earlier hammered will chip in soon. In the meantime, glad you made it!

.

[Paulus]

Hammered chaps, have you seen this? Surprised at the lack of responses from those 'in the know' ...

[TomGoodheart]

*bump*

(I was hoping Clive or Rob might add something. They look fine to me, but they're not really from a period I have much knowledge about...)

.

[Rob]

Rob's got no time at the moment.

I'm not sure they are ok, but wouldn't commit to that. The weights are ok as is the general style, but I'd prefer to find matching dies without identical fine detail.

The Eadgar has a pellet in the legend after EA and the rev. inner circle looks a bit too perfect in places. What's going on with the final O of MO?

Cnut's nose and the lis on the crown look a bit bulky and the quatrefoil style on the reverse is markedly different to other examples of this type by this moneyer that I have found in a cursory check. e.g. Lloyd has one on his site at the moment where the quatrefoil is much more open.

[damian1986]

Was looking at the Eadgar. They appear to have had some problems with the o? Did the punches ever 'break up' or anything so the O couldn't be fully struck in one go? No idea what the character after REX on the obverse is and no matching examples with the pellet after A (but some with apellet after E in EADGAR).

Edited April 16, 2015 by damian1986

[Peter99]

Many thanks for your comments: Paulus - Rob - damian1986, which I much appreciate!

As least I paid no money for them!

And thanks to TomGoodheart who recommended 'Predicimal' to me!

As a matter of interest the two coins originated from :- Dolphin Coins, 2c Englands Lane, Hampstead NW3 4TG

They are no longer listed in the Coin Dealers Directory, of course!

Does anyone know anything of Dolphin Coins, were they legit or were they in the business of 'replica' coins?

[Rob]

In that case I would say they are likely to be genuine as they dealt in rare and high value items on their monthly list. Bob Ilsley was the person's name. They now have a shop in Leighton Buzzard(?) but seem to mostly deal in modern stuff these days.

[Peter99]

Thanks Rob! What you say is most encouraging!

For interest, with the coins in their small plastic envelopes, each have small folded printed cards, 40mm square.

I have attached images as to what they say.

The Canute coin has in addition a card 30mm dia as attached.

If the cards are not genuine, Dolphin Coins certainly went to a lot of trouble.

It is good to think that Dolphin Coins are still in business and seem to be a reputable company.

I thought they might have been fly-by-nighters!

[Rob]

Right, you've got out of jail.

The Cnut was probably sold as part of their offer in Sept 1996 as seen in the Sovereign FPL

[Rob]

And the Eadgar was from the March 1997 Sovereign list

Edited April 16, 2015 by Rob

[PWA 1967]

Did you used to be old bill rob ?

[Rob]

Did you used to be old bill rob ?

No, just a nerd

[Coinery]

Scotland Yard!

[Coinery]

For those who haven't met Rob, he talks like this too...a walking library...I'll never ever be able to retain such a museum of facts, I'm not made that way! I can barely create files that are useful enough to navigate my way way to a desired fact!

He's a little bit odd! Unusual, shall we say? On fire should I say?

[TomGoodheart]

There you go Peter. Authentication and provenance in one!

(10/10 on the homework Rob!)

.

[Peter99]

Am quite amazed Rob you being able to turn up these adverts from all those years ago! Fantastic!

Todays Anglo Saxon coin prices seem to have beaten the rate of inflation.

According to the Bank of England website: £!49 in 1996 is now £250 and £249 now £405.

Just hoping my two coins are 'OK' ! )

[Paulus]

Yep, Rob's the 'go-to' guy on many coins

[Rob]

Am quite amazed Rob you being able to turn up these adverts from all those years ago! Fantastic!

Todays Anglo Saxon coin prices seem to have beaten the rate of inflation.

According to the Bank of England website: £!49 in 1996 is now £250 and £249 now £405.

Just hoping my two coins are 'OK' ! )

Once you said they had Dolphin tickets with them, all I had to do was start at catalogue no 1 and look for the coins. There's only 3 or 4 dozen to check. That the tickets said they had been in business for 27 years also helped as this was advertised (as 27 years) for 2 or 3 years from about 1995 onwards (when time stood still apparently ).

Dolphin were never cheap. I see that the September cover warns of no trade deals, i.e. retail only at this special price up to the 30th Sept after which prices would return to normal. It would be misleading to read too much into the prices without making the comparison with other dealers.

[Colin G.]

For those who haven't met Rob, he talks like this too...a walking library...I'll never ever be able to retain such a museum of facts, I'm not made that way! I can barely create files that are useful enough to navigate my way way to a desired fact!

He's a little bit odd! Unusual, shall we say? On fire should I say?

Seconded

[Peter99]

Notwithstanding that Dolphin Coins are a reputable coin dealership, unfortunately I am still a little apprehensive of the genuineness

of these two coins.

e.g.:-

The Canute coin:

The 'quatrefoil' appears too near perfect and somewhat different compared with what I have found on the 'Coins of Britain' website and my own 1997 Seaby coin cat.

And the nose on my coin is BIG!

The Eadgar coin:

I take on board 'damian1986' comments, amongst which, that pellet after 'A', is very perfect!

All in all the condition of these two coins to my 'newbie' eyes is excellent and makes me think,

where have these two coins been for the last 1000 years to be remain in this condition?

The I recall that amazing Anglo Saxon gold mancus of Coenwulf in mint condition after 1000 years, so I am back to square one!

Also, due to the very nature of the method of production of medieval hammered coins a great variation of type is of course to be expected.

So I am still hopeful they are original.

P S I am thinking of investing in a Spink 2015 coin cat.

Would that be a worthwhile advantage over a 1997 Seaby?

[Colin G.]

With hammered coins you will get a lot of variation in the strike and the design appearance so I would not be too concerned if there are some slight variations. Many of these types of coins were found as part of a larger hoard which is why they manage to retain their condition after such a long period, however even individual silver coins can remain in very good condition below ground with the correct soil type.

Regarding Spink, it may be worth getting a copy if you are thinking of building on the collection and you want to see a broad spectrum of other areas of collecting in one book. A lot of collectors and dealers do use Spink as a simple reference for coins of this period, however Spink does only tend to capture major types and does not really go into the detail of each series due to the fact it would end up about 4ft thick. If you intend to focus on a specific area of coins there are other references that may be more relevant.