Nick Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 58 minutes ago, Rob said: I'm open minded about everything in the latest ESC given the lack of proof reading evident. How many 1868 maundy sets have people seen? As Nick said, there were allegedly 3 dies used which should be possible to identify. If it is possible to identify three non-RR dies, then the latter should reasonably be a currency die. From the small sample of 1868 Maundy sets I could find online, they all have a Davies type 3 obverse. The RRITANNIAR is obverse type 2, so more than likely a currency die. Quote
Rob Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 They might all be the same Davies type, but different dies within that configuaration could exist. There could be two type 3s and one type two, one of each or three type 3s. We need to identify slight differences for nominally the same die to be certain. Quote
Nick Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 4 hours ago, Rob said: They might all be the same Davies type, but different dies within that configuaration could exist. There could be two type 3s and one type two, one of each or three type 3s. We need to identify slight differences for nominally the same die to be certain. I only found four images that are definitely Maundy (ie still part of their set) and only three of the photos were good enough quality to believe the 3d's are from the same dies. A much larger sample would be needed to draw any conclusions. Quote
Rob Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) I've got two different dies for sales listed as 1868 Maundy - 1 obverse 2 and 1 obverse 3. Obverse 2 has less than 8 beads from D to the colon after G, while obverse 3 has 11+ over the same D to colon. Obverse 3 has IT of BRIT parallel and misaligned wrt the R Ist type of obverse 2 found on WAG 43/186, Baldwins 77/2832 and Aureo 245/699 Obverse 3, Spink 9031/636, Spink 15006/638. Possibly DNW 92/241, but not clear. The pictures could be better on some which might indicate a different alignment on the obv.3 coins of the IT. I though I had 2 obverse 2s but the image was a composite. There might be 2 obverse 3s though. Edited August 30, 2016 by Rob Quote
Nick Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 Picture of the 3 with reasonably decent images:. 1 Quote
Rob Posted August 30, 2016 Posted August 30, 2016 These two might possibly be different obverse 3 dies. The serifs on the first I are different and there is possibly small differences in the bun area and the position of the legend relative to the border teeth from 3 to 5 o'clock. It might just be a different die state that has led to any changes. Ideally there will be flaws on two different dies that aren't represented on the other Quote
Nick Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 8 hours ago, Rob said: These two might possibly be different obverse 3 dies. The serifs on the first I are different and there is possibly small differences in the bun area and the position of the legend relative to the border teeth from 3 to 5 o'clock. It might just be a different die state that has led to any changes. Ideally there will be flaws on two different dies that aren't represented on the other Those both look to be obverse 2. Obverse 3 has two tufts of hair that "point" towards the R: at the end of BRITANNIAR. I can't see any obvious differences in those two examples, and they are lit differently which doesn't help, although the I in REGINA looks slightly doubled in the first. Quote
Nick Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 Found another 1868 Maundy set which seems to be a different obverse 3 die. The I in BRIT is less upright than the earlier ones I posted. Quote
Rob Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 14 minutes ago, Nick said: Those both look to be obverse 2. Obverse 3 has two tufts of hair that "point" towards the R: at the end of BRITANNIAR. I can't see any obvious differences in those two examples, and they are lit differently which doesn't help, although the I in REGINA looks slightly doubled in the first. Sorry, that was supposed to say obverse 2, not 3. I got it right in the list above as the two images are Aureo and Baldwin -doh. Easiest way for me is the number of border teeth. 8ish on obv 2 vs 11 or so on 3 between D and the colon after G is quite obvious. Quote
Rob Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 Those 3 you posted and Spink 638 could be different obv. 3s. The first I of BRIT is a bit bent to the right in the latter and the alignment of the second I and A in BRIT together with the bun curls relative to the R could be different too. If so, this condemns the RR obverse as a maundy die. Quote
Sword Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 On 30/08/2016 at 8:58 AM, Nick said: Lovely frosty lustre on that halfcrown. What are the assigned grades on those two? NGC MS62. No wear as far as I can tell but a rather large number of contact marks and scuffs on the obverses. Quote
Nick Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 42 minutes ago, Rob said: Those 3 you posted and Spink 638 could be different obv. 3s. The first I of BRIT is a bit bent to the right in the latter and the alignment of the second I and A in BRIT together with the bun curls relative to the R could be different too. If so, this condemns the RR obverse as a maundy die. I agree. Quote
Nick Posted August 31, 2016 Posted August 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Sword said: NGC MS62. No wear as far as I can tell but a rather large number of contact marks and scuffs on the obverses. Seems perhaps a little harshly graded. I've seen many worse 62's than that. Quote
azda Posted September 1, 2016 Posted September 1, 2016 Posting this one on behalf of vickysilver, he's asking if you can guess the grade (without looking it up) Quote
VickySilver Posted September 1, 2016 Posted September 1, 2016 Oh, keep a few guesses going on...This is actually pretty much how the coin looks in hand. I was so glad to have reunited this specimen with the rest of the set that I had gotten from Spink 10-15years before. I hate seeing these sets broken up and try to reassemble when I can. Quote
Paulus Posted September 1, 2016 Author Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) PR65 at a stab from me ... although I didn't know there were proofs for 1939! Edited September 1, 2016 by Paulus Quote
VickySilver Posted September 1, 2016 Posted September 1, 2016 Well, those are all good estimates. The coin came back Cameo64. That is IMO a bit severe as the bust is quite clean without any hits, rub or wear. I have seen similar at 65 or 66 and agree with our readers. At least this grade is in the ballpark and not way off like the 1920 specimen halfcrown we showed some weeks ago that may have been 5 or 6 points off. Quote
Peter Posted September 1, 2016 Posted September 1, 2016 My initial thought was cameo but not being 50% au fait with TPG's. Sets are usually split if there are bad uns. What do the rest go VS? Quote
VickySilver Posted September 2, 2016 Posted September 2, 2016 I didn't submit as the price of slabbing runs a bit crazy. I agree with what you're saying about the bad uns. Actually the others are at least as nice & included the brass 3d but not the more minor copper sadly. I once had the opportunity to get the 1941 set and wish I had, later getting only the two shillings. Quote
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