New Baldwins fixed price list

[azda]

Here's the piece in question from coin news

[Rob]

Here's the piece in question from coin news

That's a salutory lesson in how to sell, or rather how not to.

[azda]

Here's the piece in question from coin news

That's a salutory lesson in how to sell, or rather how not to.

Perhaps the sellers thought he would'nt come back to cash in his chips, wonder how he found out it had dropped in price. An interesting scenario though for those selling "investment coins" might be a lesson to be learnt here

[Rob]

Here's the piece in question from coin news

That's a salutory lesson in how to sell, or rather how not to.

Perhaps the sellers thought he would'nt come back to cash in his chips, wonder how he found out it had dropped in price. An interesting scenario though for those selling "investment coins" might be a lesson to be learnt here

Just as a sale isn't a sale until it's paid for, so a guarantee can't be ignored as a liability until it is expired. Creative accounting has a lot to answer for.

[jaggy]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

[azda]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

[jaggy]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

Well, look at it this way ... an investor has a $50 million portfolio. They put just 2% into alternatives. That is still $1 million.

[TomGoodheart]

SG could be left with a dozen or two triple unites to shift at the same time. How much would they sell for then?

Sell? More likely they would just disappear into Baldwin's magic basement for a decade or ten.

[azda]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

Well, look at it this way ... an investor has a $50 million portfolio. They put just 2% into alternatives. That is still $1 million.

Sorry, I must have dropped my wallet with that 50 million in. We're talking real world Jaggy, which means for people who do a regulär job and have a mortgage and other outstanding Bills to pay monthly

[jaggy]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

Well, look at it this way ... an investor has a $50 million portfolio. They put just 2% into alternatives. That is still $1 million.

Sorry, I must have dropped my wallet with that 50 million in. We're talking real world Jaggy, which means for people who do a regulär job and have a mortgage and other outstanding Bills to pay monthly

I am talking real world. This is what is happening in the investment world. There are more than enough people with good sized investment portfolios to move this market. And that is one of the reasons we are seeing these high prices. What is happening to 'regular people' is that they are getting squeezed out by the investors.

[Rob]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

Well, look at it this way ... an investor has a $50 million portfolio. They put just 2% into alternatives. That is still $1 million.

Sorry, I must have dropped my wallet with that 50 million in. We're talking real world Jaggy, which means for people who do a regulär job and have a mortgage and other outstanding Bills to pay monthly

The same average people didn't buy triple unites before the price took off in recent years, we are looking at wealthy international investors getting involved here.

A top end triple will cost six figures today. Even 10-15 years ago you were talking 20-40000 for a top end piece. In the Montagu sale of 1896, triples sold for between £15 and £50.

Looking at the average salary for 1900 which appears to be about £60-75pa. it is clear that coins have outstripped wage increases in the interim. I don't have data for professions across the board, but my great grandfather's cousin was promoted to keeper of a section at the BM in 1896 and his salary was £800pa, up from £400pa as deputy keeper the previous year. The most expensive thing in the Montagu sale was the Juxon Medal which sold for £770. Clearly the choice coins were very affordable at the top end of the salary scale compared to today. I don't know what today's keepers will earn, but suggest it isn't anything like the price of 16 triple unites.

As has been debated before when we were discussing how someone would feel spending a 6 figure sum on a coin, the answer remains very comfortable. 1 or 2 % of a lot of money is still a lot of money when talking tens of millions.

[Peckris]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

Well, look at it this way ... an investor has a $50 million portfolio. They put just 2% into alternatives. That is still $1 million.

Sorry, I must have dropped my wallet with that 50 million in. We're talking real world Jaggy, which means for people who do a regulär job and have a mortgage and other outstanding Bills to pay monthly

I've every sympathy with your POV Dave. Sadly though, it's the few with well-lined pockets who actually form and dictate the market, at least, at the highest end of quality and rarity.

[VickySilver]

No doubt. I think another interesting bit relating back to the SG/Baldwin's discussion is that Baldwin had (or has?) an investment program, whereby coins are stashed away by them as purchased by some sort of fund they created themselves. What has become of this particular fund?

[azda]

While interest rates stay low, 'alternative investments' will remain attractive.

Within reason

Well, look at it this way ... an investor has a $50 million portfolio. They put just 2% into alternatives. That is still $1 million.

Sorry, I must have dropped my wallet with that 50 million in. We're talking real world Jaggy, which means for people who do a regulär job and have a mortgage and other outstanding Bills to pay monthly

I've every sympathy with your POV Dave. Sadly though, it's the few with well-lined pockets who actually form and dictate the market, at least, at the highest end of quality and rarity.

Don't get me wrong Peck, i have a fair bit more now after being taken on by my company last year instead of through an agency, my salary has doubled, but i'm not going to be throwing money at coins just because i have more, i'm still going to pick and choose but i still want value for my har earned money. Edited July 13, 2014 by azda

[Peckris]

Your life ain't gonna be worth living for a while - Germany have just scored towards the end of extra time.

[TomGoodheart]

it's the few with well-lined pockets who actually form and dictate the market, at least, at the highest end of quality and rarity.

I've yet to decide whether this is a terrible thing or not. Bottom line is that it seems to me that coin collecting has changed hugely from when the last decent collections were formed. Between the 1920s and, say, 1970s some fairly major collections were formed by teachers, pharmacists, solicitors and the like. They weren't all filled with top end material (although some were) but a steady scholarly approach meant that a good representative collection could be formed. Where there was a challenge it was as much for the need for patience as cash, as rarer pieces were less unaffordable and more that you'd have to wait your turn to get one.

But for the most part I suspect that is no longer possible. Whether because of the number of buyers or amount of money available to buy, it seems to be becoming increasingly difficult to fill gaps in collections. I don't know what's happening to those coins because I don't know any 'investors'. They might be being collected and researched and studied. Or they may be locked straight into vaults only to see the light of day when next presented at some auction house.

The terrible thing would be if collectors like me and Dave etc have to settle for lesser material because all the better pieces are taken out of numismatic circulation and transferred to the Fine Art market. However if those coins are carefully held and will become available to regular collectors in time (ideally after the taste for coins as investments cools a bit and prices return to more sensible levels) then it wouldn't perhaps be so bad.

Obviously I don't expect the coins I want to return to the prices they were 5 or 3 years ago. Any more than I expect a house to cost what it did in 1980. But I'd like to think that a decent proportion of the coins I still would like to obtain will remain affordable. Otherwise I might as well pack it in today.

[azda]

Diversity Richard, as much as i like the Chas I shilling i'm steuggling to find a decent coin i want, therefor i'm Branching out and looking for high grade silver, it will have to do in the meantime i'm afraid or else my collection will just sit gathering dust and i dare'nt flick a duster over them incase it leaves Lines lol

[azda]

Oh and Germamy won the World Cup

[Nicholas]

The rare coin company not only exaggerated the value increase in their coins, but grossly over graded the condition of their coins. Their market of 'investors' were most likely retirees self managing their superannuation fund and so getting caught up in the coin market hype would purchase a coin with no idea about the coin market and how to grade a coin. Blind faith.

I would receive their well produced brochures but laugh at the prices and the grades of the coins. Make a Baldwin winter/summer list look like bargain city. ..!!..

Edited July 13, 2014 by Nicholas

[Coppers]

The rare coin company not only exaggerated the value increase in their coins, but grossly over graded the condition of their coins. Their market of 'investors' were most likely retirees self managing their superannuation fund and so getting caught up in the coin market hype would purchase a coin with no idea about the coin market and how to grade a coin. Blind faith.

I would receive their well produced brochures but laugh at the prices and the grades of the coins. Make a Baldwin winter/summer list look like bargain city. ..!!..

For those who might be bemoaning the cost of rare British coins, just take a look at the price of comparable Australian coins.

[jaggy]

These things tend to be cyclical. If interest rates rise and other investment become more interesting then we will probably see a cooling of the market. I doubt that prices will return to previous levels but they will become more affordable. My own solution is to adopt a more targeted - and less scattergun - approach to the coins I buy.

[Nicholas]

Only an out n out full scale global nuclear war will lower the prices of coins. And if that event occurs buy gold.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Nicholas

[pokal02]

When I started my crown collection in the late 80's, I thought I'd complete it one day - at the time a 1644 Oxford, 1831 etc in less than perfect state looked achievable in 20 years' time if I could save up for 6-12 months for each (I didn't then know there was only one 1674). The crazy price rises of recent years -1831 crown £3.5k to £14k in less than a decade - have knocked this on the head. Fortunately there is at least one date/type in most runs (1674 for crowns, Beorthric for hammered 1d, 1933 for milled 1d etc) to save us obsessive completers from ourselves (not sure about 6d's?).

The same £14k would buy, at current book price, a groat of each reign Edward I - Charles ii halfway between F & VF other than Ed I., Hen IV & Edw VI where you'd have to settle for F - surely much more interesting?

[mhcoins]

Whether your opinion is the new list is overpriced or not, one thing for sure is the coins are clearly selling quickly! I enquired about 4 and only got one

[Peckris]

Oh and Germamy won the World Cup

Why are you smiling? Scotland didn't even qualify ... as per usual.