1818 Lix Tvtamen Error Crown ,highest Graded Example...

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi guys,

Newbie her, Tony is me, please feel free to introduce yourselves . Just wanted to ask how would you find out the 'finest known' of the 1818 LIX TUTAMEN error coin? The info must be out there somewhere?

Cheers

T

[azda]

Hello Tony, welcomed to the forum. Maybe check the Population Reports of CGS and the American big 2 of PCGS and NGC

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi azda,

Thanks for the welcome and fast response. Don't you have to be members to get into such sites?

Would you have a link?

Cheers

T

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi again,

I couldn't get to the CGS report , but neither pcgs or ngc have ANY listed...? Booo.

[azda]

You'd need to Register to be able to look up the CGS Population report

[Paulus]

Welcome Tony, it doesn't look like CGS have any either!

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Humpf, thanks for your help guys , kinda PO'ed as I think I have the finest and know that it's value would be elevated by being recognised as such ( Spink has no valuation above VF , but being 'top pop' in a population of one is kinda deflating!

Sorry I couldn't stick a better pic up as they are all too big, but as you can see from by profile pic...it's rather good.

Baldwins have said they haven't seen one sold in 10 years and with my best pics have put it in the "GEF or a touch higher" category, so MS 60-65 ish.

Cheers

T

[azda]

MS 60-65 ish is an American grade which we don't use in the UK, we have a different scale. By the sounds of it you might be looking to sell it as "the finest known" variety, i know i'm not in the market for one but these types of hypes does nothing for me and i'm not sure what it would do in America either, but if you ship it to Heritage you'd need at LEAST $5000 worth of coins for it to even be of interest to them.

so the question is, are you looking to sell? Are you looking for valuation? Your best bet would be CGS if you're keeping it and just want it valued.

Edited November 30, 2013 by azda

[Bibbobmcguyver]

I do of course know that the Uk based grading sys doesn't use MS as a grade, but EF to a smidge higher, as a description covers a lot of ground.

Sorry, as a newbie I don't even know whatHERITAGE are?

And since the Irish postal service refuse to insure silver of ANY kind I shan't be sending it or any of my good stuff anywhere.

I would like to have it valued properly, but without a book value or auction precedent how is getting it to CGS going to help?

Cheers

Tony

[Red Riley]

Hi Tony and welcome to the forum,

Heritage are an American auction house where a lot of the high end stuff goes these days. Rayner quotes the 1818 error edge as R5 which means 5 to 10 examples known. Even if this is an underestimate which is quite likely, there aren't many out there. You will learn by reading this board that a lot of British collectors are implacably opposed to the third party graders and as a result it will take many years for any meaningful statistics to be built up on such a rare coin, if it happens at all. As you have discovered, in these circumstances 'finest known' means very little.

As for value, who knows? £5k, £10k, £15k? More? Less? Any auction house would undoubtedly set a very wide estimate and just wait and see how many people are interested on the day.

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi red,

Thanks for the welcome and the comment.

Wow I didn't know they were that rare but, as you say , that's probably an underestimate ( as I do have another , formerly a love token!).

Baldwins only put £800-1000 of an estimate on it.

Why are collectors against it? Surely quantifying anything can only be good!

Cheers

T

[Red Riley]

Please don't ask that question, wars have been started over less!

From my point of view, and there are many other arguments, it commoditizes coins to the benefit of investors and the detriment of collectors who on the whole, are more interested in the history and less in the investment potential.

[Peter]

Hi Tony

Welcome

Interesting coin and sounds desirable.

How did you obtain it?

If you are a new to coins has someone sold you an early Xmas turkey?

I concur with Red's comments.

BTW of this thread you may find the Crown elite being flushed out.

Hang on in there but we don't usually get newbies owning such coins and being aware of what they have.

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the welcome, and tho a newbie to the forum and technical jargon ,my copy of Krause is the 1991 centennial edition, and my very first coin IS one of the rarest coins ( which I do not have the correct title for ) . It is a gold roman 'Otho'. I'm a lifelong collector, and closer to the end than the beginning.

I don't think it's a turkey, I got it a few years back from another collector who had the finest Geo III tertio I'd ever seen ( which was graded,he mentioned Van Roekel...).

Is there any way to put up a full size pic of it? As you say it is highly desirable, and if you look at the profile pic .... It's kinda minty!

I don't understand the comment about the 'crown elite'.

Another query I have is how to authenticate an 1887 proof crown? It's physical properties ( weight , diam and magnetic ) are correct , but it's never convinced me. How would I tell, and how thick should it be?

Thanks guys,

Tony

[Peckris]

Humpf, thanks for your help guys , kinda PO'ed as I think I have the finest and know that it's value would be elevated by being recognised as such ( Spink has no valuation above VF , but being 'top pop' in a population of one is kinda deflating!

Sorry I couldn't stick a better pic up as they are all too big, but as you can see from by profile pic...it's rather good.

Baldwins have said they haven't seen one sold in 10 years and with my best pics have put it in the "GEF or a touch higher" category, so MS 60-65 ish.

Cheers

T

GO to the Beginners Forum

READ the Stickie there on the subject of posting pictures.

You CAN post pictures here.

[Peckris]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the welcome, and tho a newbie to the forum and technical jargon ,my copy of Krause is the 1991 centennial edition, and my very first coin IS one of the rarest coins ( which I do not have the correct title for ) . It is a gold roman 'Otho'. I'm a lifelong collector, and closer to the end than the beginning.

I don't think it's a turkey, I got it a few years back from another collector who had the finest Geo III tertio I'd ever seen ( which was graded,he mentioned Van Roekel...).

Is there any way to put up a full size pic of it? As you say it is highly desirable, and if you look at the profile pic .... It's kinda minty!

I don't understand the comment about the 'crown elite'.

Another query I have is how to authenticate an 1887 proof crown? It's physical properties ( weight , diam and magnetic ) are correct , but it's never convinced me. How would I tell, and how thick should it be?

Thanks guys,

Tony

If it's FDC then it should be fairly obvious - the fields will be mirror like, and the design will have an element of frosting by comparison. The other element you should check - whether or not it's FDC - is the edge/rim: it will be crisp, sharp even, and the teeth will all be a uniform size and length; there won't be an area of weakness there.

What you should beware is that there are many many examples of 'early strikes' of 19th Century silver, where the fields are mirrored and the design crisp. Some of these may even have been struck using proof dies but non-proof blanks. Because they were only single-struck, and won't have the proof rim/edge/teeth, they are readily classifiable as non-proofs to the experienced eye.

[TomGoodheart]

Humpf, thanks for your help guys , kinda PO'ed as I think I have the finest and know that it's value would be elevated by being recognised as such ( Spink has no valuation above VF , but being 'top pop' in a population of one is kinda deflating!

Sorry I couldn't stick a better pic up as they are all too big, but as you can see from by profile pic...it's rather good.

Baldwins have said they haven't seen one sold in 10 years and with my best pics have put it in the "GEF or a touch higher" category, so MS 60-65 ish.

Cheers

T

GO to the Beginners Forum

READ the Stickie there on the subject of posting pictures.

You CAN post pictures here.

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/7880-posting-pics/

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Thanks again guys, I'll look up the pic issue now(ish).

The 1887 is perfect proof mirrored, but has been cleaned. In hand it looks perfect, but take a hi megapixies pic and the surface hairlines are always present.

The milling is sharp and even.

Let's see if I can get a few pics up , eh?

Cheers

T

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Ok guys, here's the edge.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/66335300@N07/11133284284/

I'll post links to obverse and reverse soon.

T

[Peckris]

Ok guys, here's the edge.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/66335300@N07/11133284284/

I'll post links to obverse and reverse soon.

T

Thanks for the pic - unfortunately I wasn't able to resize it on Flickr, I only had that small picture to view. TBH there's not a lot I can tell from that, but a closer view of the border teeth might help.

[Peter]

As I said Tony...hang on in there.

The "Crown elite" was just a term in that we have many experts on this forum and you can bet your bottom $ one of us has an example or knows someone who has.

What is your specialist area?

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi guys,

Reverse and edge pic.

T

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Hi again,

Poor old George's face isn't as pretty.

Ah yes of course, someone will know or have knowledge of it.

Cheers

Tony

[Bibbobmcguyver]

Specialist area ... Crowns 1818-date .

[Gary]

reworked images