Let's See Your Copper Coins, Tokens, Or Medals!

[will1976]

31 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Aha so that was you eh

Yes afraid so! I did bid on two other lots (675 & 677) of the Birmingham Kempsons but as you said they went higher than I would pay and out of the 16 coins I only needed 3 so would have been a large out lay and a lot to sell on. Of the group I won I have just one duplicate so will sell that on at some point. They are really nice, couple of marks on one but I'm really pleased 

[JLS]

I recently picked up this, John Clark & Co.'s penny token, 1854. Same size and weight as a pre-1860 copper penny. 

What I find surprising about this issue is the "PAYABLE AT JOHN CLARK & CO" legend - this was presumably still illegal as of 1854 under the 1818 act banning private coinage ? In any case, this piece is rather rare, so perhaps it was not issued in enough quantity for anyone to care particularly about it. The "Professor Holloway" issue of 1857 and 1858 was much larger in quantity, and saw circulation in London, but had no indication that it was a payable token.

[JLS]

John Clarke & Co. wasn't just advertising on tokens, but also in cookbooks ! From Soyer's "A Shilling Cookbook for the People", 1855, a full page advert. 

If I have a free afternoon I might go over to the British Library and see if it really was patented. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by JLS

[copper123]

Nice recent pickup A/unc after near 180 years

[Rob]

Peck 730

[JLS]

A new acquisition - I've always loved the legends on this token. The story is that Bladud, decendent of Aeneas' companion Brutus, was a leper who kept a herd of leprous pigs, and could not become king of the Britons because of his leprosy. However, the pigs were miraculously cured by bathing in the waters of the Bath spring, as was Bladud, who returned to found the city after his coronation. 

To me, the token is conservatively VF+ but with a big patch on lustre on the bottom half of the obverse which I haven't captured very successfully in my photos. 

[JLS]

On 10/10/2019 at 10:56 AM, copper123 said:

Nice recent pickup A/unc after near 180 years

Is the first A of GRATIA unbarred or is that just the photograph ? 

[copper123]

Trick of the light A's are clearly bared

[Peckris 2]

On 10 October 2019 at 11:00 AM, Rob said:

Peck 730

Which kingdom has a thistle and brussels sprout as its emblem?

[Rob]

2 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Which kingdom has a thistle and brussels sprout as its emblem?

Scotland under the SNP

[Peckris 2]

1 minute ago, Rob said:

Scotland under the SNP

I somehow intuited that you would respond along those lines Rob.

[Rob]

Just now, Peckris 2 said:

I somehow intuited that you would respond along those lines Rob.

I wish I'd thought of the question myself, as with hindsight it's bleedin' obvious. Sturgeon has long been showing her admiration for anything not English or better still anti-English. A bad case of my enemy's enemy being my best friend IMO.

[blakeyboy]

Hence the Scottish pacts with France throughout history.....

[bagerap]

JLS, do you have any other info on the Clarks Patent Lamps token? I'm considering selling a rather good one but can't find anything about them.

Edited November 12, 2019 by bagerap
Add image

[JLS]

12 hours ago, bagerap said:

JLS, do you have any other info on the Clarks Patent Lamps token? I'm considering selling a rather good one but can't find anything about them.

It's not a terribly well researched piece. The date is presumed to correspond to the date of actual issue, especially because it's the copper penny format. Definitely pre-1865 because it's in Neumann, Freudenthal also collected one which is now in the BM (Accession: 1870,0507.1404).

John Clark personally owned the business, and a John Clark of 447 Strand received British patent GB 1860/2735, granted on 7 November 1860, for an outdoor shop lamp. He also received a further patent on the same subject matter in 1861. I haven't found details of Clark in any directories, but I haven't searched particularly exhaustively. It looks like the 450 Strand shop was closed by 1855; see the attached advertisement. 

Mitchener suggests that W.J. Taylor manufactured it, but that's really a guess. It's a fairly scarce piece in any condition, and may not exist in very high grades - I've never seen a true EF specimen, let alone mint state with lustre. 

References: Neumann 23343, Mitchener (2007) 7919

[bagerap]

Thank you. All in all, I think I'll hang on to this one.

[Peckris 2]

Is that the same obverse design as the Lauer models?

[bagerap]

Very good spot Peck, although I think Allen & Moore also used this portrait

[copper123]

yes very similar to a lot of "To hanover" tokens and "Model half soves"

[bagerap]

The earliest use of this portrait that I can find seems to be an anonymous Great Exhibition medal listed by Leslie Allen as HP-B390. Brown has it as 2469 and Taylor 165dd. All have it as RRR.

It also bears a passing resemblance to Una and the Lion of 1839.

[will1976]

A lovely new addition, D&H280, the obverse shows some gorgeous tones which I've managed to capture some of in the picture. Carbon spot on the reverse but I can live with that

[will1976]

And the reverse......

[will1976]

Also bought this George 4th gaming token, I have about a half dozen in this style now but haven't seen this design before 

[will1976]

[Peckris 2]

8 hours ago, will1976 said:

Is that shilling sized? It's unusual in that it's very close to the shilling design, and could be mistaken for one by someone semi-literate who couldn't see the inaccuracy of the legend. Most gaming tokens I've seen are either wildly inaccurate spade guineas with wrong dates, or the 'To Hanover' Cumberland Jack type.