Let's See Your Copper Coins, Tokens, Or Medals!

[Peckris 2]

1 minute ago, Rob said:

Scotland under the SNP

I somehow intuited that you would respond along those lines Rob.

[Rob]

Just now, Peckris 2 said:

I somehow intuited that you would respond along those lines Rob.

I wish I'd thought of the question myself, as with hindsight it's bleedin' obvious. Sturgeon has long been showing her admiration for anything not English or better still anti-English. A bad case of my enemy's enemy being my best friend IMO.

[blakeyboy]

Hence the Scottish pacts with France throughout history.....

[bagerap]

JLS, do you have any other info on the Clarks Patent Lamps token? I'm considering selling a rather good one but can't find anything about them.

Edited November 12, 2019 by bagerap
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[JLS]

12 hours ago, bagerap said:

JLS, do you have any other info on the Clarks Patent Lamps token? I'm considering selling a rather good one but can't find anything about them.

It's not a terribly well researched piece. The date is presumed to correspond to the date of actual issue, especially because it's the copper penny format. Definitely pre-1865 because it's in Neumann, Freudenthal also collected one which is now in the BM (Accession: 1870,0507.1404).

John Clark personally owned the business, and a John Clark of 447 Strand received British patent GB 1860/2735, granted on 7 November 1860, for an outdoor shop lamp. He also received a further patent on the same subject matter in 1861. I haven't found details of Clark in any directories, but I haven't searched particularly exhaustively. It looks like the 450 Strand shop was closed by 1855; see the attached advertisement. 

Mitchener suggests that W.J. Taylor manufactured it, but that's really a guess. It's a fairly scarce piece in any condition, and may not exist in very high grades - I've never seen a true EF specimen, let alone mint state with lustre. 

References: Neumann 23343, Mitchener (2007) 7919

[bagerap]

Thank you. All in all, I think I'll hang on to this one.

[Peckris 2]

Is that the same obverse design as the Lauer models?

[bagerap]

Very good spot Peck, although I think Allen & Moore also used this portrait

[copper123]

yes very similar to a lot of "To hanover" tokens and "Model half soves"

[bagerap]

The earliest use of this portrait that I can find seems to be an anonymous Great Exhibition medal listed by Leslie Allen as HP-B390. Brown has it as 2469 and Taylor 165dd. All have it as RRR.

It also bears a passing resemblance to Una and the Lion of 1839.

[will1976]

A lovely new addition, D&H280, the obverse shows some gorgeous tones which I've managed to capture some of in the picture. Carbon spot on the reverse but I can live with that

[will1976]

And the reverse......

[will1976]

Also bought this George 4th gaming token, I have about a half dozen in this style now but haven't seen this design before 

[will1976]

[Peckris 2]

8 hours ago, will1976 said:

Is that shilling sized? It's unusual in that it's very close to the shilling design, and could be mistaken for one by someone semi-literate who couldn't see the inaccuracy of the legend. Most gaming tokens I've seen are either wildly inaccurate spade guineas with wrong dates, or the 'To Hanover' Cumberland Jack type.

[will1976]

13 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Is that shilling sized?

It's 22mm diameter so as good as, like you say the spade Guinea types are very inaccurate but this one (like my others) is about the thickness of a shilling too. I've not seen this design before and need to do some research, the portrait of the king isn't an exact match to my others but is very, very close so possibly a different maker

[Peckris 2]

34 minutes ago, will1976 said:

It's 22mm diameter so as good as, like you say the spade Guinea types are very inaccurate but this one (like my others) is about the thickness of a shilling too. I've not seen this design before and need to do some research, the portrait of the king isn't an exact match to my others but is very, very close so possibly a different maker

the obverse portrait is almost exactly the Wyon portrait.

[will1976]

My other examples are by the die sinker T.W. Ingram, I'll put a picture up tomorrow of this one and an Ingram piece side by side for comparison 

[will1976]

The token on the right is the Ingram piece, the main difference is the hair curls on the top of the head

[Peckris 2]

4 hours ago, will1976 said:

The token on the right is the Ingram piece, the main difference is the hair curls on the top of the head

 

That's a pretty good copy - you can see that it's "just" wrong enough (though only slightly) not to have been taken from a cast made from a genuine coin.

[Paulus]

My first what I would call 'passable' George I farthing

[JLS]

On 11/16/2019 at 2:20 PM, will1976 said:

The token on the right is the Ingram piece, the main difference is the hair curls on the top of the head

From my junk drawer so to speak, the following two pieces with similar psuedo-Wyon busts: both by Kettle and Son, Birmingham presumably, based on style - note that they are definitely by the same manufacturer as the same defective E punch has been used in the name of GEORGE. I may well have others lying around somewhere...

 

 

[will1976]

9 hours ago, JLS said:

: both by Kettle and Son, Birmingham presumably

I don't have any (identified) Kettle pieces....what are the reverse designs? 

[JLS]

2 hours ago, will1976 said:

I don't have any (identified) Kettle pieces....what are the reverse designs? 

Like so. I believe these are Kettle pieces as another one of the "Beloved and Lamented" pieces (BHM 1379) is signed KETTLE under the bust. These came from a bulk lot a while back at Lockdales. 

[Paulus]

Just 7 Kempson's Birmingham Buildings to go! Prices are getting higher every week it seems ... latest addition