CGS Trial

[Paulus]

For anyone interested, I had already stated (in the other CGS topic) that I have submitted a batch of coins to be authenticated, graded and slabbed by CGS. I will also be selling most of them (I haven't decided what selling method yet) and I think I will be able to gauge the level of interest and prices I realise compared to raw coins I have been selling over the last year, admittedly only on eBay.

There are 8 coins submitted on 7/2 - so they are already over the 30 day milestone - but they are all at the 'Finalising Grade' stage. I will post the CGS pics here and invite and welcome any comments, opinions as to grade, etc, and we will see what CGS have to say about them by way of comparison, hopefully in a few days' time.

Here are the first 2, I will post the rest during the course of this evening.

#1 CGS UIN 25574:

Edited March 11, 2013 by Paulus

[Paulus]

#2 CGS UIN 25575:

Peter has already commented on these, saying

"Nice coins.

The 1820 has a few edge dings at 12 o'clock on the reverse and both have a few digs.

They are practically as struck and IMO GEF+.

From the pictures I cannot see evidence of cleaning. "

Anyone with a CGS log in can of course track these on their site

[Paulus]

#3 CGS UIN 25576:

[Nick]

#3 CGS UIN 25576:

This is a cracking 1834 halfcrown. I expect CGS would grade around the 78-82 mark.

[Paulus]

Thanks Nick

I don't know what 'score' I would give the G4 HCs but the 1823 is half a grade better than the 1820 imo

[Paulus]

#4 CGS UIN 25577

[Nick]

Thanks Nick

I don't know what 'score' I would give the G4 HCs but the 1823 is half a grade better than the 1820 imo

I believe that for G4 HCs, all of the veins in the laurel leaves need to be pretty much intact for EF (or better) to be considered.

[Nick]

#4 CGS UIN 25577

I've never been any good at grading Gothic florins, I'll take a stab at EF60 +/- 5.

[Paulus]

#5 CGS UIN 25579

An early milled (shilling) for a change

Edited March 11, 2013 by Paulus

[Peckris]

Thanks Nick

I don't know what 'score' I would give the G4 HCs but the 1823 is half a grade better than the 1820 imo

I believe that for G4 HCs, all of the veins in the laurel leaves need to be pretty much intact for EF (or better) to be considered.

This is where I think CGS are too strict. You see, back in the day (40 years or more) EF was considered to be virtually UNC with light rubbing or marking only just visible to the naked eye. At that time, the differential between EF and UNC was not vast, being perhaps somewhere between 1.5 to 2 times the EF value.

But now, standards have slipped. EF is allowed to accommodate some wear, though admittedly only very light; however, certainly visible to the naked eye. This is reflected in the often vast differential in value between EF and UNC.

So while I applaud CGS trying to keep up standards, their strictness at the EF end is not reflective of modern-day real-world values.

[declanwmagee]

This is where I think CGS are too strict. You see, back in the day (40 years or more) EF was considered to be virtually UNC with light rubbing or marking only just visible to the naked eye. At that time, the differential between EF and UNC was not vast, being perhaps somewhere between 1.5 to 2 times the EF value.

But now, standards have slipped. EF is allowed to accommodate some wear, though admittedly only very light; however, certainly visible to the naked eye. This is reflected in the often vast differential in value between EF and UNC.

So while I applaud CGS trying to keep up standards, their strictness at the EF end is not reflective of modern-day real-world values.

Interesting Peck. So was VF correspondingly higher too, or was there a bigger gap between VF and EF than there is now?

[Paulus]

#6 CGS UIN 25578

Another Viccy Florin, bit more wear on this one

[Peter]

I believe Ebay since 1998 has struck the general grading market.Yes it is crap.

Some claims are pathetic.

Fools and their money are soon parted.Dealers have dropped their guard.

If I bought a raw UNC coin from a dealer and it wasn't it would go back...UNLESS the price was at EF and I was happy with the coin.

Look at our friend MP who likes to increase grades at a whim.

[Paulus]

A couple of varieties to finish.

#7 CGS UIN 25581

Bought as a B/E Sixpence from the London Coin Fair, but CGS so far not attributing it as such.

[Paulus]

Close up of the B:

[Sword]

Thanks for the grading challenge Paulus! I am not not experienced but would love to give this a go as a learning exercise. I will also not hedge my bets and will just go for single grades.

1820 halfcrown: EF60

1823 halfcrown: EF65

1834 halfcrown: absolutely stunning. I will stick my neck out and go for UNC82

First gothic florin: EF65

1712 shilling: I will pass. The marks on the obverse are problematic to grading (for someone of my experience)

[Paulus]

Thanks Sword! I love the 1834 too, it is one I will be keeping

Last one of this trial batch.

#8 CGS UIN 25580

Bought from Michael Gouby as a 5 over <yet to be established> variety, and currently attributed by CGS as a new (?) variety being '5 over higher broken 5 in date'

[Paulus]

Close up of the 5

[Paulus]

Thanks for all your comments so far

Whether I submit any further coins to CGS will depend on a whole range of factors, including:

• what I think of the products and services they offer once I have my coins returned
  
• what I and you all think about the future for slabbed English coins, especially taking in to account the fascinating debates in the 'other' CGS topic
  
• what I think of them after visiting their offices and witnessing their grading process (taking place very soon)
  
• what the coins I am selling realise
  
• what I feel about the coins I am keeping once they are 'entombed' and therefore 'separated' from the rest of my collection
  

As I have said, this is a trial run, a kind of experiment, as I wanted to witness and experience this side of collecting first hand

[Peckris]

This is where I think CGS are too strict. You see, back in the day (40 years or more) EF was considered to be virtually UNC with light rubbing or marking only just visible to the naked eye. At that time, the differential between EF and UNC was not vast, being perhaps somewhere between 1.5 to 2 times the EF value.

But now, standards have slipped. EF is allowed to accommodate some wear, though admittedly only very light; however, certainly visible to the naked eye. This is reflected in the often vast differential in value between EF and UNC.

So while I applaud CGS trying to keep up standards, their strictness at the EF end is not reflective of modern-day real-world values.

Interesting Peck. So was VF correspondingly higher too, or was there a bigger gap between VF and EF than there is now?

I do think VF was a bit higher, yes, and the greatest gap was between F and VF. The implication there is that VF and above may have been the 'collector's grades', with F being acceptable for rarities, newcomers, temporary stopgaps. What seems to have happened is that the gap between grades has evened out somewhat, with an often correspondingly eye-watering jump in values between each grade.

I think Spinks would deny all this, but they - like CGS - grade quite strictly I think, which is why their values sometimes look on the high side.

[Colin88]

I remember the day when a Spink EF was just about Unc to everyone else...Spink EF just meant that someone had breathed on the coin.

[Nick]

#6 CGS UIN 25578

Another Viccy Florin, bit more wear on this one

Interesting that you say more wear on that one. I would say less wear, but more weakness. Those lions are notoriously weak on some of the Gothic florins.

I'll stick my neck out, with an AU78 prediction.

[Paulus]

#6 CGS UIN 25578

Another Viccy Florin, bit more wear on this one

Interesting that you say more wear on that one. I would say less wear, but more weakness. Those lions are notoriously weak on some of the Gothic florins.

I'll stick my neck out, with an AU78 prediction.

Thanks Nick, that's just my ignorance for you!

[Nick]

#6 CGS UIN 25578

Another Viccy Florin, bit more wear on this one

Interesting that you say more wear on that one. I would say less wear, but more weakness. Those lions are notoriously weak on some of the Gothic florins.

I'll stick my neck out, with an AU78 prediction.

Thanks Nick, that's just my ignorance for you!

Don't count on it. It's just my opinion, no more, no less. I'm sure that one of the 'gods' will give you a more categorical answer.

[Benny who]

Really like the 1834,looks like there are a few nice tones coming through in the fields,I think CGS are alot harder on the grades than most,and would put AU75 for this h/Crown.

uin 25574 could be a VF 55.

uin 25576 could be a VF 60.

I think no matter what grades they get I would still be happy with them in my collection.