1865/3 Penny

[Accumulator]

I'm fairly sure this advertised coin isn't an 1865/3. I believe the 5/3 should have the top bar of the overstruck 3 projecting to the left of the 5:

[pies]

Such a tiny thing to spot

[Colin G.]

I don't know in relation to pennies, but the phenomenon spans multiple dies in the farthing world for both 1865/2 and 1865/3

[1949threepence]

The different types of 1865/3 can be seen here on Michael Gouby's site.

I agree with Accumulator about the one in his link, though. I saw it yesterday and didn't think it was a 5/3. But also thought I might have missed something.

[davidrj]

I saw it yesterday and didn't think it was a 5/3.

Nor me, looks a standard 1865

[RLC35]

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

[Red Riley]

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

I see what you mean Bob, but it's probably the weakest (or from the mint's point of view, the most successful) that I've ever seen.

[davidrj]

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

I see what you mean Bob, but it's probably the weakest (or from the mint's point of view, the most successful) that I've ever seen.

I think I would want something far more visible before I shelled out £1,300 for an 1865 penny

[RLC35]

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

I see what you mean Bob, but it's probably the weakest (or from the mint's point of view, the most successful) that I've ever seen.

I think I would want something far more visible before I shelled out £1,300 for an 1865 penny

I agree with you on that one David!

[azda]

I don't think your picture does it justice Accumulator. Opening your link from the aye phone and then enlarging it Shows signs on the 3 where as your picture does'nt

[1949threepence]

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

It's very subtle isn't it, Bob. I agree with David ~ I'd want something a lot more visible beforwe parting with over £1000.

5/3's are not easy to spot with the naked eye, even at best.

[Accumulator]

I don't think your picture does it justice Accumulator. Opening your link from the aye phone and then enlarging it Shows signs on the 3 where as your picture does'nt

The picture I posted is of my own coin Dave, which is of a fairly clear example (though it's not a great photo, I admit).

I'm still not convinced about the coin for sale, even comparing with the various photos in Michael Gouby's book.

[1949threepence]

I don't think your picture does it justice Accumulator. Opening your link from the aye phone and then enlarging it Shows signs on the 3 where as your picture does'nt

The picture I posted is of my own coin Dave, which is of a fairly clear example (though it's not a great photo, I admit).

I'm still not convinced about the coin for sale, even comparing with the various photos in Michael Gouby's book.

There's nothing to the left of the five's top bar, whereas on all of Gouby's examples, there is. Even on the weakest.

[Accumulator]

1949 is right...it is a 1865/3, although it is the weaker one of the two examples. It is a Gouby BP1865Bc. The other example is a Gouby BP1865Bd, and is much sharper!

It's very subtle isn't it, Bob. I agree with David ~ I'd want something a lot more visible beforwe parting with over £1000.

5/3's are not easy to spot with the naked eye, even at best.

I agree, at best it's a very subtle example of an 1865Bc, but personally I'm not convinced. I'd certainly want to be more certain for over £1,000.

[Accumulator]

I don't think your picture does it justice Accumulator. Opening your link from the aye phone and then enlarging it Shows signs on the 3 where as your picture does'nt

The picture I posted is of my own coin Dave, which is of a fairly clear example (though it's not a great photo, I admit).

I'm still not convinced about the coin for sale, even comparing with the various photos in Michael Gouby's book.

There's nothing to the left of the five's top bar, whereas on all of Gouby's examples, there is. Even on the weakest.

Exactly!

[Peckris]

I don't think your picture does it justice Accumulator. Opening your link from the aye phone and then enlarging it Shows signs on the 3 where as your picture does'nt

The picture I posted is of my own coin Dave, which is of a fairly clear example (though it's not a great photo, I admit).

I'm still not convinced about the coin for sale, even comparing with the various photos in Michael Gouby's book.

I agree. There is absolutely nothing on the left of the 5, as there is in ALL Michael's examples. There is a faint ghosting to the right of both the top stroke and the main loop. If I had to stake my life savings, I would suggest it was a 5/5 recut.

The puzzling element is the "teardrop" below the upright of the 5, which doesn't correspond to anything. (ETA: it could be the ball at the end of the loop, if the underlying 5 was a slightly different style than the recut one?)

Edited January 28, 2013 by Peckris

[1949threepence]

Hmmm....jury is out on this one.....

[Accumulator]

Hmmm....jury is out on this one.....

I agree with Peckris, it looks more like 5/5. Certainly not worth a punt at over £1,000!

[Colin G.]

I don't think your picture does it justice Accumulator. Opening your link from the aye phone and then enlarging it Shows signs on the 3 where as your picture does'nt

The picture I posted is of my own coin Dave, which is of a fairly clear example (though it's not a great photo, I admit).

I'm still not convinced about the coin for sale, even comparing with the various photos in Michael Gouby's book.

I agree. There is absolutely nothing on the left of the 5, as there is in ALL Michael's examples. There is a faint ghosting to the right of both the top stroke and the main loop. If I had to stake my life savings, I would suggest it was a 5/5 recut.

The puzzling element is the "teardrop" below the upright of the 5, which doesn't correspond to anything. (ETA: it could be the ball at the end of the loop, if the underlying 5 was a slightly different style than the recut one?)

Having looked at the image in more detail armed with what others have said, I agree that a 5/5 is a likely explanation, although without the coin in hand it would be difficult to be certain, anyone got any spare birthday money to buy it with so we can settle the debate

Edited January 28, 2013 by Colin G.

[1949threepence]

Hmmm....jury is out on this one.....

I agree with Peckris, it looks more like 5/5. Certainly not worth a punt at over £1,000!

Oh, definitely not, That would not be a wise move.

[Justin]

Hi all,

Sorry for resurrecting another old thread, but from now on I am going to pay a lot more bloody attention to the coins in my collection and those I was going to sell!

I have had this for a while, bought as a standard 1865 penny, am I right in thinking that this is a 5/3. I have checked out Michael Gouby's site and think its type C?

Again thanks in advance!

Regards

PS I promise to start paying more attention from now on!!!!

[davidrj]

Hi all,

Sorry for resurrecting another old thread, but from now on I am going to pay a lot more bloody attention to the coins in my collection and those I was going to sell!

I have had this for a while, bought as a standard 1865 penny, am I right in thinking that this is a 5/3. I have checked out Michael Gouby's site and think its type C?

Again thanks in advance!

Regards

PS I promise to start paying more attention from now on!!!!

Nice example! well spotted

[Peckris]

Hi all,

Sorry for resurrecting another old thread, but from now on I am going to pay a lot more bloody attention to the coins in my collection and those I was going to sell!

I have had this for a while, bought as a standard 1865 penny, am I right in thinking that this is a 5/3. I have checked out Michael Gouby's site and think its type C?

Again thanks in advance!

Regards

PS I promise to start paying more attention from now on!!!!

Erm. Harrumph. Um. Was there.. Did you.. Er.. Is it for sale? If so, I might be in the market for it!

Edited May 13, 2013 by Peckris

[Justin]

Hi all,

Sorry for resurrecting another old thread, but from now on I am going to pay a lot more bloody attention to the coins in my collection and those I was going to sell!

I have had this for a while, bought as a standard 1865 penny, am I right in thinking that this is a 5/3. I have checked out Michael Gouby's site and think its type C?

Again thanks in advance!

Regards

PS I promise to start paying more attention from now on!!!!

Erm. Harrumph. Um. Was there.. Did you.. Er.. Is it for sale? If so, I might be in the market for it!

Hi Peckris,

No i didn't sell it thank god ! But unfortunately its not for sale at present, if I change my mind you will be the first to know.

Regards

[Cliff]

I have a couple of 1865 5/3 Pennies that I am having trouble splitting by their Gouby definitions and would much appreciate any help in this matter please.

I note that John Jerrams,on page 38 of his Satin Reference book, says "It is worth noting that normally overdates and overletters are rarely as well defined as one would perhaps wish for!  It is usual for perhaps only a couple of characteristics of the underlying figure or letter, to be sharply defined."  it is with John's statement very much in mind that I've allocated the attached as BP 1865Bc and would welcome your comments please.

With the same train of thought I've allocated my second example (sent separately) as BP1865Bd but admit to having gone round numerous trains of thought before coming up with this!

Regards to all (and hope I've kept this with the Penny section?)