1905 Florin - fair price for the grade?

[ski]

May i just add that i've also highlighted your spelling mistake of their and what should have been they're, welcome to my hell

im glad peckris isnt here tonight............we would both be in for a ticking off............

coming back to the coin shown at the start of the thread........dipping may improve the coin, or not dependant on your view, as you say it may make it blotchy.....i think that was the term used.......looking out for a more pleasing example may be the better option rather than trying to make the coin something it isnt and maybe reducing its value along the way.

tarnishing/toning...........i can see what your saying, maybe the difference is as you say, tarnish is the build up of grime...........im still not sure if i personally like coins dipped or cleaned, maybe for me the crud is good.

[azda]

May i just add that i've also highlighted your spelling mistake of their and what should have been they're, welcome to my hell

im glad peckris isnt here tonight............we would both be in for a ticking off............

coming back to the coin shown at the start of the thread........dipping may improve the coin, or not dependant on your view, as you say it may make it blotchy.....i think that was the term used.......looking out for a more pleasing example may be the better option rather than trying to make the coin something it isnt and maybe reducing its value along the way.

tarnishing/toning...........i can see what your saying, maybe the difference is as you say, tarnish is the build up of grime...........im still not sure if i personally like coins dipped or cleaned, maybe for me the crud is good.

I totally agree. I don't think that the topic starter coin could be dipped and come out smelling of roses. Its far to ingrained in my opinion and may leave tell tale stains that it's been dipped. Most notably these appear around the legends and deeper parts of the coin.My next question would be though, would you have known i'd dipped the Halfcrown?Did'nt realise, but my coin is 100 years old next year

So that does beg a question, when do you/anyone regard a coin as being old........A 100 year old coin in human terms is old, but in the coin collecting world, when do we regard a coin as actually being an old coin?

Edited September 12, 2012 by azda

[Peter]

I shall try it on some really grubby coins.

Nice result Dave.

[azda]

I shall try it on some really grubby coins.

Nice result Dave.

That was a 10 second dip Peter and then run under the tap a while

[ski]

My next question would be though, would you have known i'd dipped the Halfcrown?

difficult to say from the pic.....my gut response is yes.....because it looks a little flat,less lustrous....if you know what i mean....i have a couple of florins that i think may have been dipped......theyre clean for sure but somehow dont feel right.

i think im going to have to try this for myself on a couple of lower grade coins......interesting.

[Gary D]

Dave.....thats a mighty impressive result. my question is though......what's the difference between tarnishing and toning? and equally important if their the same, why remove it?.

i have to say, i like your coin in both pictures, theres been lots of discussion on this forum about shiny versus toned for silver, with many preferring toned to bright, the reasoning being the toning adds that bit of character.....if i were buying your coin......the toned pic may sell it to me.

ski

On ebay the cleaned coin would probably make double the uncleaned.

[Peter]

I have sold on Ebay and the buyer has resold at a higher price after cleaning.

Cleaning (not harsh is OK on ancient coins)

Ebay has some strange buyers and when you see polished crap making a fortune If anything looks like it has been tampered with I will mention it.

[Peckris]

Before

After

That's a superb result Dave, nice one! And a great advert to show that dipping isn't ALWAYS bad.

Dave.....thats a mighty impressive result. my question is though......what's the difference between tarnishing and toning? and equally important if their the same, why remove it?.

i have to say, i like your coin in both pictures, theres been lots of discussion on this forum about shiny versus toned for silver, with many preferring toned to bright, the reasoning being the toning adds that bit of character.....if i were buying your coin......the toned pic may sell it to me.

ski

I think that's a good question. Tarnish is usually pretty dark in colour, and forms relatively quickly compared to toning, which often has a colour and is acquired over years. But it isn't a precise science - suffice to say that if it's dark and ugly, you could be justified calling it tarnish!

My next question would be though, would you have known i'd dipped the Halfcrown?

difficult to say from the pic.....my gut response is yes.....because it looks a little flat,less lustrous....if you know what i mean....i have a couple of florins that i think may have been dipped......theyre clean for sure but somehow dont feel right.

i think im going to have to try this for myself on a couple of lower grade coins......interesting.

My response would be, no I wouldn't be able to tell. I might be suspicious that an old coin should be so untoned, but it is far from unknown to find undipped BU coins as far back as 1816!!! Depends entirely on how they're stored. That halfcrown looks lustrous to me, as it should after only 10 seconds in the dip.

[Gary D]

I think a lot depends on the coin. A very high grade coin will stand some cleaning, anything worn just doesn't look right.

[ski]

I think that's a good question. Tarnish is usually pretty dark in colour, and forms relatively quickly compared to toning, which often has a colour and is acquired over years. But it isn't a precise science - suffice to say that if it's dark and ugly, you could be justified calling it tarnish!

yes there seems to be a bit of an overlap between the two, being ugly and calling it tarnish helps in understanding the diference and knowing why toning is good.

My response would be, no I wouldn't be able to tell. I might be suspicious that an old coin should be so untoned

......thats where im at with a couplle of my coins.....im suspicious

[Peckris]

I think that's a good question. Tarnish is usually pretty dark in colour, and forms relatively quickly compared to toning, which often has a colour and is acquired over years. But it isn't a precise science - suffice to say that if it's dark and ugly, you could be justified calling it tarnish!

yes there seems to be a bit of an overlap between the two, being ugly and calling it tarnish helps in understanding the diference and knowing why toning is good.

My response would be, no I wouldn't be able to tell. I might be suspicious that an old coin should be so untoned

......thats where im at with a couplle of my coins.....im suspicious

If completely untoned, but rather 'flat' looking and not lustrous, you would be right to be suspicious..

[ski]

If completely untoned, but rather 'flat' looking and not lustrous, you would be right to be suspicious..

okay thanks, so i got to leave by the radiator for a long time to tone......right?......i recall you saying once to leave them on top of a wardrobe.....is that better for copper/bronze?

[Peckris]

If completely untoned, but rather 'flat' looking and not lustrous, you would be right to be suspicious..

okay thanks, so i got to leave by the radiator for a long time to tone......right?......i recall you saying once to leave them on top of a wardrobe.....is that better for copper/bronze?

No, that wasn't me I don't think? In any case, dipped coins only applies to silver not to copper / bronze (which would be very difficult to alter the tone of anyway). With the latter it is important to buy with the right tone from your point of view, from the start, as you can do so little about it.

[ski]

No, that wasn't me I don't think? In any case, dipped coins only applies to silver not to copper / bronze (which would be very difficult to alter the tone of anyway). With the latter it is important to buy with the right tone from your point of view, from the start, as you can do so little about it.

ski, on 24 August 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

what sort of time scale are we looking at for the retoning to take place?

Depends what you're doing. Left outside in a rain gutter, maybe only weeks or a couple of months. Otherwise it depends on where you live, how you store them, what kind of tone you want, etc etc. I'm using the flat top shelf of a mahogany cabinet, where there are no punched holes, to try some pieces. It seems to take forever.

ok maybe not a wardrobe ......

[Peckris]

No, that wasn't me I don't think? In any case, dipped coins only applies to silver not to copper / bronze (which would be very difficult to alter the tone of anyway). With the latter it is important to buy with the right tone from your point of view, from the start, as you can do so little about it.

ski, on 24 August 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:

what sort of time scale are we looking at for the retoning to take place?

Depends what you're doing. Left outside in a rain gutter, maybe only weeks or a couple of months. Otherwise it depends on where you live, how you store them, what kind of tone you want, etc etc. I'm using the flat top shelf of a mahogany cabinet, where there are no punched holes, to try some pieces. It seems to take forever.

ok maybe not a wardrobe ......

True, but I didn't say anything about a or a either

:D

Edited September 12, 2012 by Peckris

[ski]

har har har...........that made me chuckle for sure.

[Coinery]

£2 a pop for 265ml at Asda,Sainsbury's & Tesco.Delivered from Amazon £4.45....looks like I may try it.I've had mixed results with acetone and olive oil.

I've had some REALLY mixed results with acetone! I've previously stripped off what was a lovely golden tone over a nice lustred 20c XII, turned a reasonable silver hammered a strange yellowish colour, and gave an unnatural tone to an E7 farthing. I do still use it on really grubby coins, but I'm much more cautious with it nowadays!

Will trial some of this dip, though, I've got a few 1887's in the sacrificial hold!

[Peckris]

£2 a pop for 265ml at Asda,Sainsbury's & Tesco.Delivered from Amazon £4.45....looks like I may try it.I've had mixed results with acetone and olive oil.

I've had some REALLY mixed results with acetone! I've previously stripped off what was a lovely golden tone over a nice lustred 20c XII, turned a reasonable silver hammered a strange yellowish colour, and gave an unnatural tone to an E7 farthing. I do still use it on really grubby coins, but I'm much more cautious with it nowadays!

Will trial some of this dip, though, I've got a few 1887's in the sacrificial hold!

Aye, the 1887 JH shilling in F makes an ideal candidate for experimenting with silver dip

[Coinery]

I shall try it on some really grubby coins.

Nice result Dave.

Here, here! Top result, Dave, definitely adds value I'd say. However, I'm also with you Ski on the toning issue. Whilst it may add sterling value to D's HC because it will now appeal to a wider market, I have to say I could very well live with both the pre AND post dip coin. It would very much depend on the general tonal trend of the collection it was going to sit within, I guess?

[Peckris]

I shall try it on some really grubby coins.

Nice result Dave.

Here, here! Top result, Dave, definitely adds value I'd say. However, I'm also with you Ski on the toning issue. Whilst it may add sterling value to D's HC because it will now appeal to a wider market, I have to say I could very well live with both the pre AND post dip coin. It would very much depend on the general tonal trend of the collection it was going to sit within, I guess?

That's very true. From my own perspective, even if all my 1911 - 1920 halfcrowns were beautifully toned (and not all are!), I'd still find it hard to live with Dave's "pre dip" specimen, and though it's now untoned, I think it's 1000% better than how it looked before. But as you say, it's a personal choice.

Interestingly, my 1917 and 1919 halfcrowns came from an auction lot where the coins were all deformed by a purple tarnish (believe me, it didn't look good!). I dipped for 10 seconds and they came out with pretty much all of the tarnish off. I then stored them in a cabinet and after 5 years or so, they toned back beautifully; they now have a gorgeous blue/red toning that's verging on purple, but a very attractive appearance, unlike before.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Peckris

[Peter]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1914-George-V-Silver-Half-Crown-Very-High-Grade-/110948295700?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item19d508a414#ht_500wt_1288

Now this is polished.

[Coinery]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1914-George-V-Silver-Half-Crown-Very-High-Grade-/110948295700?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item19d508a414#ht_500wt_1288

Now this is polished.

Just cracked my Tesco's-own sunglasses!

[azda]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1914-George-V-Silver-Half-Crown-Very-High-Grade-/110948295700?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item19d508a414#ht_500wt_1288

Now this is polished.

And this has been dipped to long 120985595521 someone insert url please

[Paulus]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1914-George-V-Silver-Half-Crown-Very-High-Grade-/110948295700?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item19d508a414#ht_500wt_1288

Now this is polished.

And this has been dipped to long 120985595521 someone insert url please

Here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120985595521;jsessionid=4058D5BB0C16E77C78265FC07B93800A?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D120985595521%26_rdc%3D1

[Peckris]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1914-George-V-Silver-Half-Crown-Very-High-Grade-/110948295700?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item19d508a414#ht_500wt_1288

Now this is polished.

And this has been dipped to long 120985595521 someone insert url please

Here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120985595521;jsessionid=4058D5BB0C16E77C78265FC07B93800A?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D120985595521%26_rdc%3D1

Horrid. Hard to see that toning back, ever.