CROWNS

[VickySilver]

Ah that is trick - posting photos - that I need a bit of help on. Maybe Sunday will give it a stab. Not for sale as part of a larger chunk that I've spent sme time and effort on.z

[VickySilver]

Glad somebody else likes these bits...

Edited September 22, 2012 by VickySilver

[azda]

Glad somebody else likes these bits...

Open a photobucket account and you can post till your hearts content

[divemaster]

VS - Where on earth did you manage to get your 1936 proof set from?

Any joy on the photo yet

[VickySilver]

Well, I got the 1/4d, 1d, 3d-2/6 in a US auction - Stack's in 1996. I got the crown, which I believe had been with the others in a Noble Australia auction several years later. I was the underbidder and had to buy it back from the winner for a bit more - Uggh!

[ski]

hey...divemaster.......as you like your crowns slabbed, you may like one or two in the forthcoming london coin auction.

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?category=9.1&page=Catalogue&searchtype=3&viewrange=0

ski

[azda]

I like their spiel on lot 502, quote

(Florin 1905 ESC 923 AU and graded AU75 by CGS 2nd finest from 14, we understand that the finest known graded AU78 is in a long term collection and unlikely to be offered for sale, so this piece is currently the finest available to commerce)

So what they're really saying is, you gotta bid big cos we've said the finest is away for a while..........

CGS and Londoncoins really should not reside together..........

Graded as AU75, so where's the holder if it's graded so? Or is this been graded by CGS for London in order to achieve a better price, then when the buyer comes to get it graded by CGS it's downgraded a few points...............

Edited November 8, 2012 by azda

[azda]

Sooooooooooooo, lot 517, i paid (this year) roughly about 157GBP for mine.........Pix added to compare between mine and Londons 300-400GBP estimated Halfcrown. There's is the joint finest apparently in a population of 30......A little concerned that London and CGS are getting a little to neighbourly........Anyway, Thoughts on mine over theirs, good or bad.......

[ski]

youre sure right Dave.......when i read that i thought ..so what.

the same could be said for any coin with history/provenance ......why on earth should that be used to big up a lesser piece.

Graded as AU75, so where's the holder if it's graded so? Or is this been graded by CGS for London in order to achieve a better price, then when the buyer comes to get it graded by CGS it's downgraded a few points...............

the buyer wouldnt need to get it graded as......its already graded

[ski]

dave....london and cgs are not getting too neighbourly......london and cgs are far more connected than just neighbours....their the same family!!!!

[ski]

i will give you £157 quid for it

[azda]

i will give you £157 quid for it

Lol, its in my collection Ski, but will be interested to see where that one goes.

[azda]

dave....london and cgs are not getting too neighbourly......london and cgs are far more connected than just neighbours....their the same family!!!!

Agreed, and they Need a divorce

[argentumandcoins]

Whilst I am no fan of slabbing coins I do not see any particular problem with the fact that CGS are London Coins and vice versa.

The spiel they write in their auction catalogues is no different to that of any other auction house and they are merely acting with the best interests of the vendor at heart (irrelevant as to whether or not they are the vendor or the middleman). You seem to forget that the only buyers at London auctions are the very sort of people on this forum and they SHOULD know better than to pay an exorbitant price for a coin just because it is encased in a "monstrous carbuncle"

The only time that there could ever be a conflict of interest is if Steve grossly overestimated a lot, stopped taking bids or ignored the book on it just so London could acquire the lot on the cheap to slab and flip it.

To the best of my knowledge that has not and will not happen. I have been a client for many years and have found them to be totally transparent in all of their dealings, a little disorganised and veeerrrrryyyyy sloooooooooow post sale, BUT totally transparent.

[ski]

The spiel they write in their auction catalogues is no different to that of any other auction house

absolutely true, however the spiel in this particular coins sale humoured me. it also ignores the fact that could be hundreds of coins better than the cgs best extant quoted.

You seem to forget that the only buyers at London auctions are the very sort of people on this forum and they SHOULD know better than to pay an exorbitant price for a coin just because it is encased in a "monstrous carbuncle"

no i never forgot that...however my post for this slabbed coin was to highlight to divemaster that a coin in the series he is specifically interested in was coming up for auction, also he seems to like his crowns slabbed, so this item may have been of great interest to him.

ive always had very good dealing s with semra....no problems there

ski

[divemaster]

I must be the one of the only collectors here that actually think that "slabbing coins" is the best way forward. I have not heard one valid, constructive criticism that makes me doubt my strategy. People rant that they, "want to feel the coin", well firstly i have lesser grade coins if i want a cuddle, secondly, no one cuddles my top grade coins as i want to retain there value. Im not saying that every coin should be slabbed as it is not sensible to spend £20 to slab a £10 coin. But if a coin is worth many thousands i feel it is very worthwhile.

Insuring coins becomes easier also when you have a sensible, reliable, listed valuation for insurers to see, not just guesses.

I would also buy without seeing a genuine slabbed coin, whereas i would never buy any other coin without viewing first.

Bring it on!!

[azda]

Divemaster you should Check the thread where a fake coin was actually slabbed by NGC, so makes slabbing look a little dubious personally

[Peckris]

I must be the one of the only collectors here that actually think that "slabbing coins" is the best way forward. I have not heard one valid, constructive criticism that makes me doubt my strategy. People rant that they, "want to feel the coin", well firstly i have lesser grade coins if i want a cuddle, secondly, no one cuddles my top grade coins as i want to retain there value. Im not saying that every coin should be slabbed as it is not sensible to spend £20 to slab a £10 coin. But if a coin is worth many thousands i feel it is very worthwhile.

Insuring coins becomes easier also when you have a sensible, reliable, listed valuation for insurers to see, not just guesses.

I would also buy without seeing a genuine slabbed coin, whereas i would never buy any other coin without viewing first.

Bring it on!!

You MAY be right about a "coin worth many thousands", but actually, in those cases I doubt very much that a slabbing will affect the value much if at all. It's lower value items where a slab - rightly or wrongly - can add so much value.

As for constructive criticism:

1. Dave has already pointed out, TPG companies do make mistakes, and fakes have been noted. So much for a cast-iron guarantee.

2. Storage - for those of us who own nice mahogany cabinets with proper 'cut outs', the slab is a disaster area. They cannot be stored in any of the traditional coin storage media, and they take up a hell of a lot of room.

3. Photography - very difficult if not impossible to take a decent picture, which is essential if selling.

4. Insurance - I have my own database which not only has scans of every coin that is worth more than £15-£20, but - unlike a slab - has the date purchased, where from, how much paid, notes on any distinguishing features, etc etc. More use to an insurance assessor than a slab that's ... oh, gone! stolen!

5. Handling - yes, those of us who own nice coins actually DO like to handle them every now and again.. wearing cotton gloves.. holding and tilting to view in just the right light.. examining through a loupe for any unsuspected varieties.. A slab makes all of that difficult. As for preserving its condition, you only have to look at Royal Mint proof sets from the 1970s to see how well sealed coins are 'protected' - true, you can't scratch them, but they can tone UGLY.

Those who like slabs will continue to sing their praises no doubt, but there is a majority against them in this forum at least.

[Sword]

I must be the one of the only collectors here that actually think that "slabbing coins" is the best way forward. I have not heard one valid, constructive criticism that makes me doubt my strategy. People rant that they, "want to feel the coin", well firstly i have lesser grade coins if i want a cuddle, secondly, no one cuddles my top grade coins as i want to retain there value. Im not saying that every coin should be slabbed as it is not sensible to spend £20 to slab a £10 coin. But if a coin is worth many thousands i feel it is very worthwhile.

Insuring coins becomes easier also when you have a sensible, reliable, listed valuation for insurers to see, not just guesses.

I would also buy without seeing a genuine slabbed coin, whereas i would never buy any other coin without viewing first.

Bring it on!!

You MAY be right about a "coin worth many thousands", but actually, in those cases I doubt very much that a slabbing will affect the value much if at all. It's lower value items where a slab - rightly or wrongly - can add so much value.

As for constructive criticism:

1. Dave has already pointed out, TPG companies do make mistakes, and fakes have been noted. So much for a cast-iron guarantee.

2. Storage - for those of us who own nice mahogany cabinets with proper 'cut outs', the slab is a disaster area. They cannot be stored in any of the traditional coin storage media, and they take up a hell of a lot of room.

3. Photography - very difficult if not impossible to take a decent picture, which is essential if selling.

4. Insurance - I have my own database which not only has scans of every coin that is worth more than £15-£20, but - unlike a slab - has the date purchased, where from, how much paid, notes on any distinguishing features, etc etc. More use to an insurance assessor than a slab that's ... oh, gone! stolen!

5. Handling - yes, those of us who own nice coins actually DO like to handle them every now and again.. wearing cotton gloves.. holding and tilting to view in just the right light.. examining through a loupe for any unsuspected varieties.. A slab makes all of that difficult. As for preserving its condition, you only have to look at Royal Mint proof sets from the 1970s to see how well sealed coins are 'protected' - true, you can't scratch them, but they can tone UGLY.

Those who like slabs will continue to sing their praises no doubt, but there is a majority against them in this forum at least.

I have a somewhat love-hate relationship with slabs. On one hand, I will not buy a slabbed coin unseen, as even a high grade (assuming it has acutally been accurately assessed) is no guarantee of decent eye appeal. I always avoid coins with bad toning, (large) carbon spots, scratches in prominent positions, small edge knocks etc and these "defects" are not directly indicated by the grade. Secondly, I agree that slabs can inflate the price of the coin inside (especially if the grade is high)and the asking price can be unrealistically high. Hence I rarely buy slabbed coins. Slabs (e.g. those of CGS) can make examining the edge difficult but the NGC slabs are much better in this aspect. I also find that many people do bash the slabs a bit and even the holders of coins slabbed recently can pick up a lot of scracthes / marks which reduce the pleasure when viewing. Also I am a believer than vintage speciemen / proof coins should always be with their original boxes and I consider a coin to be "incomplete" otherwise.

Having said that, I do confess that I have slabbed the high grade (UNC to GEF) coins that I particularly like. I don't do it for the grading but for protection. I do like to enjoy looking at these coins without worring about gloves, dust, accidentially dropping them or breathing too close to them. Many TPG companies do take photo of coins. CGS photos are generally not too bad as they were taken before slabbing. (But NGC photos taken after slabbings are pretty useless). With regard to coins toning ugly in slabs, I wonder why don't the TPG companies slab coins under an inert atmosphere? Slabbing in dry Argon (or even plain cheap nitrogen)will not result in silver toning assuming the slab is air tight.

[divemaster]

Yes, i have a love hate relationship with encapsulation, or slabbing, i love it and a lot of people hate them.

Anyone that hates them, be carefull you dont get your feet wet trying to hold the tide back!!!!!!

[argentumandcoins]

The only wet feet will be from most of us P****g ourselves laughing at your perceived market trend.

As a full-time dealer I am not exactly inundated with requests for slabbed coins from my customers (I am sure that Chris, Rob, Bob and Derek will bear me out on this). I buy them and sell them but only if the price for the coin under the slab is right. Any CGS or US slabbed coins bought for the collection are cracked straight out and nestle snuggly in my mahogany coin cabinets which are much more attractive storage vessels (as Peck has already stated).

If you think the market will be driven by slabbed coins you are either of the below options;

1) Bill Pugsley

2) Steve Lockett

3) Living in the States

4) Living on Mars

Good luck with your chosen area but please don't try to tell people on here how to suck eggs!

[azda]

I've only ever bought 2 slabbed coins, 1 was for my collection which i cracked out the same day as arrival and the 2nd i'm waiting on but will leave in the slab as its for selling on

[VickySilver]

I guess that I also am on the fence as slabbing has many benefits, and the act itself is reversible whereas the hamfisted dealer or collector that plants his index finger squarely in the middle or even edge on a copper coin with lustre has committed an irreversible act with permanent consequences. And I have the coins to show it (not MY prints however).

Also, there IS a guarantee by the big slabbers such as NGC or PCGS to back the encapsulated coin as authentic. If it can be proved otherwise they will replace, as is my understanding, at full market value.

In point of fact, it is the future of higher valued milled coins IMO, the dinosaurs that don't see it coming may need to visit a show such as the ANA to see just that. Lest you thing it is America only, take a look at the burgeoning Chinese market as well. Old fashioned collectors with cabinets and trays of wood would absolutely spin!

The other thing I do not understand is the curmudgeonly appproach or commentaries on slabs - if it is not for an individual, so be it. Why criticize others? I guess those with premium carts and buggies did not look on the advent of the automobile favourably either...

[divemaster]

Who mentioned "market trends" who mentioned "market will be driven by slabbed coins", not me, all i believe in is that for storage of my collection (after having had all the mahogany trays) its the way to store, and catalogue them, for my grandchildren in the future. I have never tried teaching you to suck eggs because you probably couldnt.

[azda]

Who mentioned "market trends" who mentioned "market will be driven by slabbed coins", not me, all i believe in is that for storage of my collection (after having had all the mahogany trays) its the way to store, and catalogue them, for my grandchildren in the future. I have never tried teaching you to suck eggs because you probably couldnt.

So what is the quote about Tide and feet wet?